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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Really upset at the natural child birth brigade...

230 replies

Huncamuncaa · 11/08/2019 22:42

Sorry everyone.... need to vent...

I had a baby almost 5 years ago. I did the NCT course and armed myself with all the facts. I took in everything they said. I wanted a calm, natural birth.

It didn't work out that way. My baby was delivered by ventouse. I had severe bruising and scaring which took months to heal. Walking was painful for weeks. After the birth, the bruising prevented me from sitting down for days.

I was told that the heart rate had dropped due to the cord being round the baby's neck, hence the way he was delivered that way. I had been a bit out of it at the time on painkillers. I have never talked about the birth much and nor has my husband. It was traumatic but we survived it.

The NCT reunion came round and it turned out that all of us had had to have some sort of intervention at birth, except for the girl who had wanted a home birth. Her baby sailed into this world. It was blissful. The NCT leader looked quite smug. Her message that 'if you want a natural birth and remain calm, it will happen,' was ringing true. I told her about my birth and how I had had to have the baby born quickly because they cord was causing his heart rate to drop. She told me this was most unlikely, many babies are born this way (I know that this is true). She said it was more likely that my birth had been 'over medicalised'. Apparently when you give birth in hospital, doctors frequently don't give first time mums the time they need to give birth. She suggested that I had been very anxious and this has reduced my ability to push. The woman basically changed my understanding of my own birth. For the last 4 and a bit years I have believed that if I had breathed deeper, been more in tune with my body or had dimmer lights I would have not had six months of physical discomfort due to scarring from my episiotomy. My birth would have felt joyful not traumatic.

So I am pregnant again. Did a different (but similar) antenatal course, desperate for that joyful birth. Told the group about my first birth. Was told again, it was unlikely to have been an actual emergency. This time the meditation will get me through. Childbirth will be a dream.

Today I finally spoke to my mum (a doctor) who had been in the delivery suite at my first birth. She filled me in. She was really shocked that my understanding was that my birth had been 'unnecessarily medicalised'. She told me that my baby's heart rate dropped critically low and that, yes, I was in that very small minority of cases where the cord is wrapped in such a way that it affects the heart rate and could have caused a still birth. I knew that my son had been taken off me but didn't actually realise he was being resuscitated while I was stitched up. My mum had been very concerned. My bruising was caused by him being born with both his hands next to his head. (There isn't anything they could have done to prevent this position, not even a home birth amongst scented candles). I was unlucky with the episiotomy scarring, but the quick delivery saved the life of my baby.

My natural birth prevented my child from being still born. How was I so easily brain washed and made to feel inadequate by these people, even after almost five years?! I do believe that being calm, meditation and the rest of it helps but how can someone, who wasn't there and hasn't seen my notes feel like it's OK to educate me on what happened and why it all went wrong?!

OP posts:
HerSymphonyAndSong · 13/08/2019 19:57

I had complications during pregnancy and the people who failed to use the evidence base were the consultants. They barely even looked at me during the two appointments I had with them and were astonished that I had questions, and their responses could be summed up as “we know best”. The midwives did at least listen to my questions and do their best to answer them. I am the daughter of doctors, so I am certainly not anti their involvement, but these ones made me feel completely ignored

I was very very lucky that the complications had no impact on my baby or the labour and delivery, but finding a doctor who would treat me like an grown adult seemed impossible

Cyclemad222 · 13/08/2019 19:57

@YourSarcasmIsDripping I'm saying what I've heard, which is that statistically home birth is safer. I've never had one. I went to hospital too. I'm glad your baby was ok.

But making out home births are dangerously woo, the evidence doesn't back it up. It's not irrational to choose home birth.

Really my ideal would be hospitals being woman centred enough, so every room has the nice lights and balls and whatever and a relaxed atmosphere, but access to machines and consultants if they're needed.

EugenesAxe · 13/08/2019 20:12

Hmm this is huge b-s. I was lucky with both my births but I certainly wasn’t relaxed with first, and because I tore with that delivery I was nervous about pushing out the second. I think pethidine chilled me out the most...

My sister had an awful time as her DS had his hand in his mouth. Her second baby was delivered in water perfectly and there’s every chance you will experience something similar. 2nd labours are often loads better.

Love woo-led 😂

Teateaandmoretea · 13/08/2019 20:15

Really my ideal would be hospitals being woman centred enough, so every room has the nice lights and balls and whatever and a relaxed atmosphere, but access to machines and consultants if they're needed.

My ideal would be just to put the woman and her baby at the centre and make birth as safe and happy experience as possible. Sadly many seem to see it as a competition - both the 'natural' did you choose the right whale music and the 'medical' you could die types. In reality there's truth in both sides and it should be about individual women and their babies.

SweetMelodies · 13/08/2019 20:23

I think it’s very complicated.

I always think it’s frustrating when talks about how to make birth better turn into ‘natural vs medicalised’ type debates when that’s a different conversation.
A good birth could mean a woman choosing an elective c-section for no official medical reason or it could mean a woman being supported in having a home birth

Teateaandmoretea · 13/08/2019 20:28

I agree sweetmelodies

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 13/08/2019 20:51

But making out home births are dangerously woo, the evidence doesn't back it up. It's not irrational to choose home birth.

I've never said that though.
Just making a point that for some women a hospital environment is relaxing and comforting, just as much as a home birth and music and breathing is for another.

I know it can be an amazing experience, I have friends who have done it.

In my opinion it's not the be all and end all of birthing though.

If you want that kind of stuff and it's safe to do so, great. If you don't or for whatever reason you don't get to have it, still great. No one's winning, no one's failing.

EugenesAxe · 13/08/2019 21:20

Hmm this is huge b-s. I was lucky with both my births but I certainly wasn’t relaxed with first, and because I tore with that delivery I was nervous about pushing out the second. I think pethidine chilled me out the most...

My sister had an awful time as her DS had his hand in his mouth. Her second baby was delivered in water perfectly and there’s every chance you will experience something similar. 2nd labours are often loads better.

Love woo-led 😂

Silvercatowner · 15/08/2019 09:09

We medicalise birth because we want more mothers and babies to survive

Of course, but birth is also medicalised because it is cheaper, more convenient for medical staff and informed by a misogynistic patriarchy.

hungergame · 15/08/2019 09:24

I have had the exact same experience and now due my second. Funnily enough it's only middle class Brits that seem to roll out the 'you over medicalised it' stuff. I work with a lot of people from all across Europe and they are completely astounded that I'm not just going for a planned c-section/induction and medicalising as much as possible. They think natural/home birth is completely insane. They make me feel better, I'm going to try for something in the middle but if it goes wrong then I'm going to try not to beat myself up over it

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2019 09:42

My Spanish family still think I should have sued the hospital because I was “allowed” to give birth to my very large babies vaginally. I find that mindset very worrying.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 15/08/2019 09:47

I work with a lot of midwives across Europe and they don’t think that home birth is insane

PixieLumos · 15/08/2019 09:54

The NCT reunion came round and it turned out that all of us had had to have some sort of intervention at birth, except for the girl who had wanted a home birth. Her baby sailed into this world. It was blissful. The NCT leader looked quite smug. Her message that 'if you want a natural birth and remain calm, it will happen,' was ringing true.

This time round - and maybe next time she’ll need some kind of intervention, because all births are different. Your NCT leader is basically implying that if women have interventions it their own fault. She sounds like a first class c* to me - and although I’m quite a shy and reserved person, in this case I don’t think I could have held back from telling her so.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2019 10:06

“Your NCT leader is basically implying that if women have interventions it their own fault. She sounds like a first class c* to me”

She does. She also sounds like someone who did not take on board her NCT training.

lumpy76 · 15/08/2019 10:13

I've had 8 babies and I thoroughly support any intervention to prevent death or damage. All my births have been pretty nightly medicalised. Starting with induction for pre eclampsia, which led to emcs. What I am concerned about though is the lack of actual consent in delivery rooms. That women are often so out of it due to pain etc that they're unable to properly consent or things are just done without their consent at all. With my last delivery I was pushing and the baby's heart rate started to drop. I had the gas and air removed from me - I was using it and they didn't want me to but I was also biting on the mouth piece, which was helping me. And I had my legs put up in stirrups with "I'm going to put your legs up in stirrups so you can push properly". I was not asked for consent at all. In my second delivery (first vbac) I wasn't asked for my consent to give me an episiotomy. These sorts of things make all the difference in the long run & they don't take more time.

Teateaandmoretea · 15/08/2019 11:56

I work with a lot of people from all across Europe and they are completely astounded that I'm not just going for a planned c-section/induction and medicalising as much as possible. They think natural/home birth is completely insane.

Oh yawn the non-evidence based guff about homebirth comes out.

Any random 'European' knows more about birthing than people in the UK.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2019 12:38

I know it’s an unrepresentative sample- but certainly my Spanish family are very dismissive of any sort of “natural” birth. And when told about a friend who had a home birth decided it must be because it was cheaper for the NHS!

madeyemoodysmum · 15/08/2019 12:42

They are knobs. End of.

When your kids at school it will change to book levels

Then what secondary they are getting in too

Then gcse options

Then results

Etc etc etc.

Ignore and disengage

elliejjtiny · 15/08/2019 13:03

Some people are ridiculously competitive and like to judge others. It starts with birth, then feeding methods etc etc.

I think being calm and relaxed definitely helps labour progress but no amount of relaxing will turn a breech baby or fix placenta problems etc.

I like the idea of woman centred births where women can choose to have an elective section for no medical reason and high risk women can still have the nice things that birth centres have but with medical equipment and consultants available too.

Blue2309 · 15/08/2019 14:26

Anybody who makes any disparaging comment about how another women chooses to give birth (or often, as the labour progresses, has to agree to things she might otherwise have wanted to avoid).
If you’ve had an easy labour it’s so easy to think it was because you were calm/hypnobirthed etc. Those of us who had difficult births know that a fair degree of luck is also involved!!

OP - I was you, i’ve wasted so much energy being angry with these kind of people. But you know what, they are not going to change their mind and in the end I just thought ‘well it’s all bollocks, my baby literally couldn’t care less, I need to be a bit thicker skinned.’

cranstonmanor · 15/08/2019 14:31

I work with a lot of people from all across Europe and they are completely astounded that I'm not just going for a planned c-section/induction and medicalising as much as possible. They think natural/home birth is completely insane.

Well you haven't met any dutch people then. They tend to go for home births here. Also, c-section is not done on maternal request, only if medically necessary.

cranstonmanor · 15/08/2019 14:32

Of course, but birth is also medicalised because it is cheaper, more convenient for medical staff and informed by a misogynistic patriarchy.

Surely a home birth is cheaper?

cranstonmanor · 15/08/2019 14:35

I'd just like to add to my last two posts that I'm all for medicalised birth (because I'm scared that something would go wrong), but I would support any womans birth plan, be that home or hospital.

SweetMelodies · 15/08/2019 15:58

@cranstonmanor c-sections are being done on maternal request increasingly over here. Plenty of NHS hospitals support women choosing a c-section for their own preference

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 15/08/2019 16:03

I like the idea of woman centred births where women can choose to have an elective section for no medical reason and high risk women can still have the nice things that birth centres have but with medical equipment and consultants available too.

Yes. Individual births for individual women. I would like a system where individual risk is explained as best as it can ever be and women are left to make their own choices and supported whichever way they go without judgement.

I chose an elective for my 2nd. One of my community midwives was decidedly judgy. A friend chose a homebirth for her second and had SS called on her. We'd both had emergency sections for our first. We were both adults making the best decisions we could in the circumstances with the facts we had. We both ended up with emergency sections which is a whole other story but the criticisms and negavitiy really doesn't help at such a vulnerable time especially when you have the shadow of previous horrendous experience hanging over you.

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