Really upset at the natural child birth brigade...

[Huncamuncaa]

Sorry everyone.... need to vent...

I had a baby almost 5 years ago. I did the NCT course and armed myself with all the facts. I took in everything they said. I wanted a calm, natural birth.

It didn't work out that way. My baby was delivered by ventouse. I had severe bruising and scaring which took months to heal. Walking was painful for weeks. After the birth, the bruising prevented me from sitting down for days.

I was told that the heart rate had dropped due to the cord being round the baby's neck, hence the way he was delivered that way. I had been a bit out of it at the time on painkillers. I have never talked about the birth much and nor has my husband. It was traumatic but we survived it.

The NCT reunion came round and it turned out that all of us had had to have some sort of intervention at birth, except for the girl who had wanted a home birth. Her baby sailed into this world. It was blissful. The NCT leader looked quite smug. Her message that 'if you want a natural birth and remain calm, it will happen,' was ringing true. I told her about my birth and how I had had to have the baby born quickly because they cord was causing his heart rate to drop. She told me this was most unlikely, many babies are born this way (I know that this is true). She said it was more likely that my birth had been 'over medicalised'. Apparently when you give birth in hospital, doctors frequently don't give first time mums the time they need to give birth. She suggested that I had been very anxious and this has reduced my ability to push. The woman basically changed my understanding of my own birth. For the last 4 and a bit years I have believed that if I had breathed deeper, been more in tune with my body or had dimmer lights I would have not had six months of physical discomfort due to scarring from my episiotomy. My birth would have felt joyful not traumatic.

So I am pregnant again. Did a different (but similar) antenatal course, desperate for that joyful birth. Told the group about my first birth. Was told again, it was unlikely to have been an actual emergency. This time the meditation will get me through. Childbirth will be a dream.

Today I finally spoke to my mum (a doctor) who had been in the delivery suite at my first birth. She filled me in. She was really shocked that my understanding was that my birth had been 'unnecessarily medicalised'. She told me that my baby's heart rate dropped critically low and that, yes, I was in that very small minority of cases where the cord is wrapped in such a way that it affects the heart rate and could have caused a still birth. I knew that my son had been taken off me but didn't actually realise he was being resuscitated while I was stitched up. My mum had been very concerned. My bruising was caused by him being born with both his hands next to his head. (There isn't anything they could have done to prevent this position, not even a home birth amongst scented candles). I was unlucky with the episiotomy scarring, but the quick delivery saved the life of my baby.

My natural birth prevented my child from being still born. How was I so easily brain washed and made to feel inadequate by these people, even after almost five years?! I do believe that being calm, meditation and the rest of it helps but how can someone, who wasn't there and hasn't seen my notes feel like it's OK to educate me on what happened and why it all went wrong?!

I’m so sorry that you were made to feel so shit.

This doesn’t reflect my experience of NCT or hypnobirthing practitioners, but that goes to show how much sway those individuals can have

It’s almost as if people don’t realise how high mortality rates for both mothers and babies were back when everyone had a ‘natural’ birth. What numpties!

My debrief was 5 months later which was quite standard in my trust. Gives you a bit of time to get over the shock and think about what you really want to know I think

I had a horrific first birth. And I was talking about it to a colleague in the pub at someone’s leaving lunch when baby was a few weeks old. The barmaid (who also doubles as an nct teacher, though not mine) chipped in to say that the birth was my fault because I allowed them to induce me (I had a prolonged rupture and we waited 36 hours but no sign of baby). If I hadn’t allowed that induction then he wouldn’t have been dragged out of me and intubated and my recovery would have been wonderful. I didn’t realise that I carried that guilt around until my second labour and delivery (which was much better, a textbook pool birth). The natural childbirth lot can be so damaging

I had no choice but medical intervention with both births.

With first I had PE so if I didn't seizures or even brain/damage/coma was possible. Also could've put DD in a lot of stress.

With second I haemorrhaged 2000ml if no help there I'd have led out and likely died.

But maybe we should have all risked it. Would certainly help with population growth.

Fucking imbeciles. These are the kind of people who just turn a blind eye to the fact that before medical intervention, women and babies very often just died during childbirth.

There's plenty of evidence that child birth has been over medicalised in many circumstances but people need to remember that some c-sections and assisted deliveries save the lives of babies and mums. That's the difference between looking at medical statistics at a population level vs one individual case. Ignore these ignorant people, you needed that intervention but the good news is that this time there's a very high probability that all will be fine, it easier second time.

With my first, my Grandmother and my mother said that if only I'd been relaxed...

Dc1 was eventually delivered by emcs 81 hours after my waters broke. I ended up with a psychotic break whilst he was in NICU and it was utterly horrific. If anything, it was their refusal to intervene which caused all my issues. I did get fully dilated thanks to lots of walking around whilst water gushed out of me in excruciating pain as big headed dc1 tried to leave my suboptimal pelvis via my sciatic nerve but despite being left for 5 hours, he never got any lower than mid pelvis. Then they tried to drag him out me with forceps and again, he never budged.

By the time they said they'd have to cut him out of me, I had no idea what was going on and couldn't understand why all these people were so determined that I take this baby doll. I kept trying to make them understand that I didn't like dolls, baby dolls especially.

Ironically enough though, up until that point I was relaxed. I can breathe through pain no problem and looked absolutely fine. In fact no one would believe I was in active labour until I demanded they examine me.

He's 4 now. I've had a lot of counselling and managed to have a second but I still can't say I "gave birth", I still have nightmares about his arrival and I barely speak to my "d"m.

My birth moved too quickly to have pain relief, and then I was pushing for almost two hours when babies heart rate had been all over the place for about 6 hours. A doctor came in and told me I needed to do a big push and if nothing happened I'd be going to theatre. As it happened that push got babies head visible and so they let me push for another 20 ish minutes and baby was born. Then I haemorrhaged and all sorts of people were called in (including a resuscitation team, which may have been a mistake but unfortunately can't ask the person who called them). Because I was put straight on the gas and air I wasn't aware of anything I was being told and just thought I was going to die, and so until my 3ish week debrief I was really unsure of what had happened and mentally scarred by how quickly I'd accepted that I was going to die.
One of the first questions a lot of people asked me was about pain relief and if I'd had a "normal" birth. And when I've mentioned I'd want a c section next time because I'm so scarred by it all people look at me like I'm shit on their shoe.
I didn't do any kinds of classes, but I stayed calm through out and did all the things that probably would have been recommended. Things still went wrong and I still almost needed assistance. It's disgusting how anything other than a vaginal delivery with no assistance and ideally no drugs is treated like the worst thing in the world.

My NCT course was Brilliant!!!!

It was called YOUTUBE!! Watched so many different L&D experiences, what to put in the hospital bag anything to do with being a mum you can find on youtube and its REAL women.

I was induced, baby's heart rate dropped but lying on my side helped, pushed her out my self with no epidural etc but then nearly bled to death, my only memory from my first delivery is telling my DH to kill me, holding a doctors hand whilst the other saved my life and watching the midwife scoop blood of the bed to measure the amount I had lost, So I had a 'Natural birth' but it was SHITE.

why do you think so many women would die years ago? Because they didn't breathe deep enough? NO because they didn't have amazing doctors that thank god we have now to intervene and save not only our life but our baby's to!

You did amazing, thats all you need to remember!

Your birth sounds like my first birth. Low Hr, emergency ventouse. Painful episiotomy. Baby taken away.

My second birth was a water birth, much calmer.

What did I do differently? Absolutely nothing. It wasn’t the breathing or the being calm that made it different. It was that the cord was around my baby’s neck badly enough to affect his HR the first time, and it wasn’t around tightly the second time so his HR stayed nice and consistent. That is literally it.

You can’t predict or change things like that, all you can do is help the outcome by listening to the midwives and doctors.

You did nothing wrong the first time, and I hope this time your baby isn’t being awkward. But if they are then they are, you cant calm breathe to change that.

Crossing my fingers for a more positive experience for you this time! All you can do is be prepared and open minded and know your options xxx

In my opinion this kind of stuff raises it's ugly head because giving birth isn't actually a competition. No one wins or loses or fails. It's not that fucking special. Thousands of women do it every minute all over the world in a variety of circumstances (from planned csections to the 7th pregnancy literally just sliding down in an elevator) .

Some women however are competitive as fuck,want to be special, want to win, want to be "better", so they makeup a narrative that suits their situation about how they did it right and anything else is a failure. They crow and strut about spouting their "sage" advice and why they're at the top, climbing there on the traumatised and maimed bodies and mental health of other women .

Fucking winning at life!

While I know the NCT sometimes behave like a caricature of itself, it is important to remember that it was started at a time when women routinely gave birth on their backs with their legs in stirrups, often strapped there to prevent them moving, and when an episiotomy was a standard procedure. The NCT was a radical organisation at the time, and campaigned to give women the choice in childbirth that we think of as normal nowadays. So while they obviously go over the top sometimes it’s important not to forget their roots, and what we owe to the first campaigning NCT women.

Sorry I disagree. NCT only made you feel like shit because you let them and also because you didn’t effectively use the knowledge you had available to you (ie your mum / midwife / consultant) or advocated for yourself.

I personally would have challenged the lady there and then on her medical qualifications / demanded stats / made a complaint. NCT is a volunteer organisation and many of the class leaders don’t have medical qualifications and even if they do they are often years out of date. Nobody should use them for anything except the bare basics and to plug the gap between experience and medical advice. You should certainly not be using them as a substitute for medical knowledge!

I totally agree, OP

I didn't do NCT because a friend had done it in our area a year earlier, and at their first session, they had to go around the room introducing themselves and giving their reasons for not wanting a home birth.

I went to the other extreme and did classes run by a very experienced Obstetrician, which went through everything in minute detail, including pain relief options and c-sections. It was all evidence based and fear-free.

Obviously anecdotes aren't data, but of the 12 of us in the class, 11 of us got the births we wanted, with just 1 EMCS. I wonder how much of that was down to us all being fully in the loop on the realities of birth.

The course is also run online, in case it is of interest to anyone:
amotherplace.com/

Your calmer than me op I'd have told them off if nct had said that to me.
I was terrified in labour, my first labour was fast painful, no time for pain relief and I had dropped BP for baby cord round his neck and some bad tearing with artirial spray. Bbay taken away immediately and lots of people in the room. Resulted in more painful than childbirth stitches as ripped up n down and then surgery for 4 hours.
I was nothing but greatful for the care I received in hospital from the staff. They made me feel safe and cared for my son while I was too ill too. People need to remember that childbirth can be dangerous.
If I'd had a home birth both me and bbay could ahve died as I wouldn't have got to hospital in time, as its over an hour away.
It's out me off having a second one tbh

I had a natural birth at the hospital and my lovely, healthy daughter died 20 mins before the end. How I wish and pray they had used a ventouse to get her out quickly. Before birth I knew how I wanted it all to go but now I just wish I had my daughter.

I'm So sorry for you loss. Xx

These people really piss me off OP with their nonsense and pseudo science, in the victorian and all previous eras maternal and baby deaths was incredibly high.
They are not so high now because medical intervention is possible.
To blame you for this crisisis utterly despicable, I'd have had something to say about that.
They really are bonkers and make people feel rotten about themselves when they have done nothing wrong.
I opted for an epidural right from the word go as I know I am terrible when in pain and my son's birth was lovely and calm and I was happy.
It was a lovely, perfect birth and the one I wanted.
No doubt the NCT would look at me in disgust for that.

So sorry Beth, such an awful thing to happen xxxx

So sorry for your loss. It really puts it all in perspective x

So sad so sorry.

I would recommend reading “this is going to hurt” by Adam kay. He was an obstetrician so interesting to see it from the “other side” if you are not a medic.. Only book that made me actually laugh and properly cry.

I've never done any antenatal classes but online there is clear pushes for natural births and advice to avoid induction and induction horror stories.

One of the worse stories I've came across was a lady who had a traumatic EMCS with DC1. She was keen for a 'natural birth' for DC2, she got the vaginal delivery but baby was still born. DC3 was planned CS.

I'd think it would be a help to get a debrief but that involves Docs time and we have a shortage of Docs.

I agree with you OP about NCT but this is really true...

NCT only made you feel like shit because you let them and also because you didn’t effectively use the knowledge you had available to you (ie your mum / midwife / consultant) or advocated for yourself.

We all have to be informed consumers when it comes to medical things and you sound like a smart person. Why would you ask a lay person who wasn't even there to weigh in on your birth, but not ask the multiple doctors and midwifes, one of whom was conveniently there at the family dinner table every Sunday.

The positives and criticisms of NCT are well known, and further research on that and all things birth just a Google search away.

I think part of the reason people get sucked in to all this is that they do want to believe it.

I researched a lot before I gave birth, and you know what, it wasn't easy to read that I'd be in such unbearable pain, possibly get life changing injuries, etc, but that is the reality. Part of me would have preferred to put my head in the sand, attend NCT and believe it would all be easy. That's OK but you have to be honest with yourself if you are doing that, and not blame NCT.