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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Men staying overnight on postnatal wards

465 replies

quesadillas · 10/07/2015 14:52

Hi,

I'm getting myself really worked up about what seems to be an increasing trend for men to be able to stay overnight on postnatal wards. Last time I gave birth, men weren't allowed to stay. But I'm pretty sure that my hospital now allows it. This really bothers me. I found the postnatal ward absolute hell last time, begged to leave as early as possible , even though I knew I wasn't ready, and I ended up being re admitted. It was just a horrendous experience. This time I'm pregnant with twins, and the hospital have said that although I'd be a priority for a private room,there's absolutely no guarantee and there's probably more chance I'll be on the ward. I simply cannot imagine having visitors there 24 hours a day when I'm trying to get my head round having twins and feeding twins, and after a c-section. The woman in the neighbouring bed last time had her partner there at visiting hours and he was a nightmare. Loud, demanding of the staff (for him, not her) and thoroughly unpleasant sounding. I admit this may be affecting my views.

Did you have men on the ward 24 hours a day when you gave birth? How was it? Am I being ridiculous? And am I actually within my rights to refuse to spend a night in a room with members of the opposite sex, given that if I was having my tonsils out, it wouldn't be allowed?

Getting myself too worked up, need to get a grip!

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 15/07/2015 15:32

No one is trying to "remove parents rights". The discussion is about how to treat women post-natally with the appropriate level of care, for all women not just some.

BlisterFace · 15/07/2015 15:35

I don't think anyone is content with lower standards of care Ellie - the two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive. I would like privacy and dignity AND better care for all women. This should not be beyone the aspirations of a wealthy developed country.

Privacy is incredibly important to some, and for me being on a ward (even one full of other women) is like the 7th circle of hell anyway. I honestly think have 12 people plus babies stuffed in a 6 bed bay (for example) would send me over the edge...

The logistics don't really make sense to me either. Here we are routinely swabbed for MRSA before being admitted. Will they do that to visitors? Will the wards be cleaned more frequently as a consequence?

chibi · 15/07/2015 15:36

Maybe the partners can be tasked with cleaning Hmm

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 15:36

Not my problem Ellie If there aren't enough staff to ensure that doesn't happen take it up with the NHS.

That is exactly the problem. No-one gives a damn about anyone else.

When you can guarantee the level of care on the ward, I'll start giving a fuck about the other patients' feeling. My ONLY concern is getting home with a healthy baby.

BlisterFace · 15/07/2015 15:39

Yes Ellie I do get that, I really do. I have experienced HCP's of all levels who lie and obfuscate (including one who unplugged my call button immediately after cancer surgery because I annoyed her). I would like people like that to be shot sacked.

It just feel horribly defeatist to say "look, it sucks but the NHS is so, so bad this is what we have to do to make sure babies are safe". The even-further-reduced level of care will become the norm and those who have nobody to advocate for them will have an even more traumatising experience.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 15/07/2015 15:41

I find the argument that my expectation of safety and privacy on a hospital ward = dead babies to be utterly disgusting as well as fallacious.

In a hospital setting patients' rights have to trump parents' rights. That just seems to be logical.

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 15:44

The discussion is about how to treat women post-natally with the appropriate level of care, for all women not just some.

You can't do it unless you can remove negligence from the midwifery. Make senior staff criminally responsible for negligence and errors by themselves and their junior colleagues, and maybe one day you'll have some progress. Double the staff, but tell them all its okay, no-one has any responsibility under the law, and you'll never be held responsible for negligence or death, and the only thing you'll have is twice as many midwives fawning over babies and ignoring buzzers and cries for help.

One woman collapsed in the toilet at night and it took half an hour for a midwife to come to her aid. She could have died that night. The following night I made sure I had a private room and DP staying with me.

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 15:47

I find the argument that my expectation of safety and privacy on a hospital ward = dead babies to be utterly disgusting as well as fallacious.

It is only fallacious if the mother and baby in the next bed are cared for, and go home alive. The moment that patient is neglected or that baby dies, it becomes a fact that had another person been present a babies life could have been saved.

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 15:52

Blister I agree, but Id rather mothers were defeatist and protected themselves, than ignorant of the care they may receive, naively optimistic about the staff they will encounter, and possibly left disabled, traumatised, or grieving.

CultureSucksDownWords · 15/07/2015 15:52

Ellie, it seems then, that any woman who can should go private, as the NHS is a dangerous lottery where there is a huge upsurge in deaths and serious consequences for post natal women and babies. Or have a home birth.

I don't know if I believe that the only option is to give up on the whole system, and bring your own carer in to be with you at all times so that you can be protected from this epidemic of neglect. And it's tough luck to those who haven't got anyone who can do this for them.

NickyEds · 15/07/2015 16:00

Speaking as a 40 week pregnant woman I am much more nervous about the idea of sharing a 4 bed ward with dp and 3 strange men than not having dp with me over night. As it is I may not have a choice about having dp with me as we already have a ds and he'll need to be with him. Not everyone has the choice.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 15/07/2015 16:10

Bloody hell, as if women don't go through enough with labour (and then immediately being expected to cope with looking after their newborn despite in some cases having major surgery) they're now expected to put up with sleeping next to strangers of the opposite gender in an overcrowded ward (completely against EU standards btw) because a man's right to bond with his child is greater than the woman's rights as the goddamn patient.

plinkyplonks · 15/07/2015 16:16

No, it's about allowing the wishes of women to be respected. If a woman would like her husband or anyone else there to support her post labour she is not able to in many hospitals. It's about choice and giving women that choice. Women are given choices pre birth - why shouldn't it be the case post birth?

Duckdeamon · 15/07/2015 16:23

Because to have choice for all would require loads of private rooms, which would be unaffordable. Some People's wish for men to be there overnight or the NHS wanting to cover up resource/management/staff problems shouldn't trump the need of women recovering from delivering babies for privacy and dignity.

BlisterFace · 15/07/2015 16:29

Not disagreeing Duck but again, I wonder why the UK can't afford it but everyone else can? Even in equivalent European countries with universal healthcare. That simple change would blow the whole argument out of the water.

Original poster
quesadillas · 15/07/2015 16:32

I think the infrastructure in this country in many areas has been sorely neglected by successive governments, and the NHS is just one area. See also roads, prisons, schools, social housing.

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/07/2015 16:39

Maybe guaranteeing choice would be unaffordable but many more people could get to choose if they designated particular bays or ends of the ward.
We just need it to be recognised that wanting privacy and dignity after childbirth IS a reasonable desire and not just women being precious and oversensitive Hmm

Duckdeamon · 15/07/2015 16:40

In the UK we spend much less per head on healthcare than most other countries in Europe, certainly those whose healthcare we envy!

bruffin · 15/07/2015 16:41

We just need it to be recognised that wanting privacy and dignity after childbirth

It just not after childbirth, but prior to childbirth as well.

HermioneWeasley · 15/07/2015 16:52

Care is a challenge on lots of wards - are partners allowed to stay over on other wards?

I think the answer is no, but i'm happy to be corrected?

plinkyplonks · 15/07/2015 16:58

Birthing partners were allowed 24/7 on Labour ward and maternity wards but not the post natal ward.

soloula · 15/07/2015 16:59

I just don't get this whole dead baby trumps privacy argument at all. If this is a valid argument should all patients in all wards not been allowed someone to watch over them just in case they slip into a coma/anaphylaxis or another unforeseen life threatening event that the nurses don't immediately notice? Nonsense.

The issue is why women at one of the most vulnerable times in their life should be subjected to the presence of non-essential strangers. I would have loved DH to be able to stay overnight when I'd had DD. In fact before I had her I was more terrified about the whole post natal stay than I was about being in labour but at the same time if that meant being on a ward where all partners could stay, rather than a private room, then DH would have been sent packing. I would not want that sort of intrusion no matter how well meaning everyone else's partners were and I would have been mortified if DH's presence upset someone else. And would partners being present mean everybody just kept to themselves? What a horrible environment to be in and very isolating for those without someone there.

If new mums need help then that is an issue for the NHS to address. Having friends or family present to take the place of a trained healthcare professional is not the solution and is the beginning of a slippery slope to even worse care IMO.

BlisterFace · 15/07/2015 17:09

It's actually very similar to the argument that volunteers should be allowed onto hospital wards to feed elderly or vulnerable patients who can't reach their food because the HCP's "don't have time". Hmm As far as I know, this has been mostly resisted because of safeguarding issues and because it would constitute a tacit acknowledgement that wards are unsafe unless you are self-caring. (Whihc kind of defeats the purpose!)

Funny how those ideas go to the wall as soon as PP women are involved.

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 17:13

... because a man's right to bond with his child is greater than the woman's rights as the goddamn patient.

No, you read it wrong.

A father has no rights at all to be with his baby or its mother. Those are the rules that should be enforced.

However, that changes the moment the baby itself is the patient.

Simple solution. Stop treating babies on anti-natal wards. move them and their mothers to private rooms. If you wish to remove a parents parental rights, then at the very least provide a nurse to site at the bedside throughout the night.

I have no issue with women wanting privacy from other women's partners, but I do have an issue with removing care from a baby and a mother just because someone else is a little delicate about their sensibilities. None of these issues exist if mothers with babies that need further care are treated off the wards.

EllieFAntspoo · 15/07/2015 17:15

Blister Again, why should NHS staff give a F? Its not like they can be prosecuted for neglect or mistreatment resulting in the death of a patient. Wouldn't it be nice if we all had jobs where none of the consequences could be visited back upon us?