Men staying overnight on postnatal wards

[quesadillas]

Hi,

I'm getting myself really worked up about what seems to be an increasing trend for men to be able to stay overnight on postnatal wards. Last time I gave birth, men weren't allowed to stay. But I'm pretty sure that my hospital now allows it. This really bothers me. I found the postnatal ward absolute hell last time, begged to leave as early as possible , even though I knew I wasn't ready, and I ended up being re admitted. It was just a horrendous experience. This time I'm pregnant with twins, and the hospital have said that although I'd be a priority for a private room,there's absolutely no guarantee and there's probably more chance I'll be on the ward. I simply cannot imagine having visitors there 24 hours a day when I'm trying to get my head round having twins and feeding twins, and after a c-section. The woman in the neighbouring bed last time had her partner there at visiting hours and he was a nightmare. Loud, demanding of the staff (for him, not her) and thoroughly unpleasant sounding. I admit this may be affecting my views.

Did you have men on the ward 24 hours a day when you gave birth? How was it? Am I being ridiculous? And am I actually within my rights to refuse to spend a night in a room with members of the opposite sex, given that if I was having my tonsils out, it wouldn't be allowed?

Getting myself too worked up, need to get a grip!

Other posters have noted that you don't understand what 'everyone's husband is someone's annoying stranger' means lorna. But let's give you a chance to prove it, what do you think that phrase you object to actually means? Nobody is saying there isn't a big range of views from women on this subject btw, this thread alone makes it obvious.

I particularly liked the objections to women daring to vocalise a fear of being raped by male strangers on a primarily female forum, johnfarleysruskin.

Muff I also missed the bit where all men were accused of being sex offenders. Clearly I haven't RTFT.

dancing - the only man that I would be willing to tolerate in these circumstances is my husband. Not your husband or Muff's husband (lovely as they may be). I also exist, therefore some people object to this. (

Judging by this thread (which may or may not be representative of the general population) the people who object are in the majority. Who knows how many new mums were basically too cowed, intimidated or exhausted to object? I probably would have grudgingly accepted it myself at 25, but been uncomfortable and miserable

This is one thing that makes it even worse. Why should women feel cowed into silence at such a vulnerable time? Tell the staff before you go into hospital that you will raise hell if men are allowed to stay overnight. Don't let yourselves be bullied.

Amen, Mythical

I am more than aware of both view points thanks BlisterFace which is why I suggested yesterday that perhaps private rooms are the way forward, although the cost of this is ludicrous. I really do hope the OP can get a private room and that midwifery care improves based on some of the awful experiences discussed on here.

Just to reassure you I do understand what it means thanks MuffMuff but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I would obviously love to stay here all day and be specifically singled out and questioned about my views and being accused of being an 11 year old but quite frankly I have better things to do with my time, like some housework to assist my 'lovely sensitive husband'.

I do appreciate that dancing but perhaps it seems that way because those in favour (like you) are in the minority.

The cost of private rooms is obviously not too "ludicrous" otherwise they would not be available in every other developed country in the world as a matter of course. But yes, I agree they are the only solution (plus decent nursing ratios, of course).

I wish my husband had been allowed to stay on the ward - made recovery much more difficult. Thank God in a way that my baby was in special care because there is no way I could have looked after a baby post section. There were 2 nurses to look after multiple wards - babies screaming all night because their mothers couldn't get up out of bed to look after them and the nurses were all busy. Not to mention it takes two people to make a baby, and shutting fathers out of the first few hours of a baby's life is very, very wrong.

You evidently don't lorna That's why you don't realise that if even one woman thinks everyone's husband is an annoying stranger, the claim that everyone's husband is someone's annoying stranger is proved correct. And that us existing and us being right are two separate things. You've shown this across multiple posts now.

"Judging by this thread (which may or may not be representative of the general population) the people who object are in the majority."

What nonsense. There is absolutely no way to quantify that. What about the women in my ward that were sobbing all night post section because they couldn't get up to look after their baby, their husbands were sent home and the nurses were too busy to help? Do you not think those women deserve a voice too - or does only yours count?

I had my pfb 2 weeks ago and my hospital allows partners to stay, I had a terrible nearly 40hr labor ending in failed forceps attempt and an emergency csection, had lost a lot of blood and was a mess.
If my DH not been allowed to stay I'm not sure what I would have done as I couldn't even lift the baby for the first 12hrs and was not going to get any help from the staff.

The ward staff forgot to empty my catheter, and my medication and to feed me and were not responding to the call button so had it not been for DH being there and going to talk to them, I would have been in an even worse state.

However, I hated being on the ward, it was terrible to be in such a mess in front of so many people, and the constant talking, snoring and coming and goings were awful. It was so cramped, hot and uncomfortable that we asked to pay and be moved into a private room.

Best £100 I have ever spent so I do appreciate what you are saying, however I think that sometimes partners are needed.

YANBU.

I imagine hospitals allow it because they don't want to pay for the staff needed to care for the new mothers, and hope the men will be free labour. I doubt it works out that way. What a mess!

Partners wouldn't be needed, if hospitals did what they are supposed to do, and did do up until about 10/15 years ago.

And btw - I don't know of one woman who didn't want their husband there supporting them and looking after the baby post birth. Not a single one. But guess what, in most of my local hospitals - men are not allowed to stay on wards. So in what way are the views of women who don't want men on wards being quashed? Surely, in fact, it's the other way around?!

And btw - it's OK to ask our husbands to have babies, pay towards them, be that father figure - but it's not OK for husbands to look after THEIR OWN CHILDREN in hospital? Are you for real? Or is only the voice of women with the same view point as you important?

The way forward should be separate wards if possible - ones where husbands can stay, ones where husbands are not allowed to stay. That way everyone gets what they want without having to fork out for private rooms - which by the way, are prioritised for people in difficult situations (i.e. women with babies in special care, difficult deliveries etc_

Hence my very careful use us the words "which may or may not be representative of the general population" plinky

Crap nursing care and under-staffing also needs to be addressed. If ratios were decent, partners sleeping in armcahirs wouldn't be necessary. Women being afraid of receiving or even expecting to receive negligent care in a developed country is a scandal imo - the partners/non-partners is merely a diversion.

As I said upthread, I would use my Muslim faith to ensure that I received a private room or a ward with no men if this became standard. Which is scandalous when you think about it, because I would not necessarily have a medical need. I really don't see how they can force those of us who object to share with men when it is so vehemently avoided in the rest of the NHS and indeed in most of the world.

Both points of view are reasonable and should be accomodated - but it seems the only way to do so is by ensuring individual rooms are routinely available.

BlisterFace - my problem is that you are making an inference or conclusion when you acknowledge you are not in full possession of the facts. "Judging by this thread (which may or may not be representative of the general population) the people who object are in the majority" Carry on banging your head though, might knock some sense into you.

You'd use your Muslim faith to manipulate to get a private room? Perhaps above women who have had terrible deliveries? Whose babies are in special care? Whose babies were born still born but still need to recover from surgery? What a nice person you are. But hey, you're rights are obviously special and need to be put above others right?! Haha. Not sure I'm convinced by your 'everyone's rights need to be heard" mantra - should add 'as long as they don't interfere with my own selfish rights when someone else has a greater MEDICAL need'. Oh dear.

What would be ideal is if every family could have a private room, and free choice as to who they have visiting them and when. No, it isn't ideal that if a baby comes in the middle of the night that the father is sent on his way because it's outside visiting hours. But this costs money. It's money that I personally believe is worth paying. But the NHS will never believe it's money worth spending if it becomes more acceptable for visitors to do the tasks that should be the job of the ward staff. If everybody had their own room their would be no worries from those who want visitors with them all the time, nor would there be any problems for those whose worst nightmare is having other peoples' visitors around all the time. Both opinions are valid. My own individual opinion is that in the absence of these perfect facilities, the rule of no should apply.

And for those who have recounted their horrible post-birth experiences, I was just like you last time. EMCS after a failed induction, two days without sleep, unable to move. My husband had to leave after we'd been on the ward two hours. It would have been useful having him there because my buzzer wasn't answered promptly. But that's what I had to deal with. And that's what the problem is - inadequate staffing. I'm expecting a baby girl. In 30 years time when she's starting her family, how will things be if we don't try and improve services now? Will I actually have to deliver her baby myself while the ward is merely staffed with a receptionist?

I think my plan of action will be as follows. Firstly, push for the private room and hope there's one available. Just in case it's not, I will be making my feelings known in advance that I will not be willing to discuss medical issues about me or my babies with visitors around if it's outside what I see as visiting hours. And I want that in my notes. I'm not going to fake any religion or anything - that shouldn't be necessary for privacy. I genuinely believe if I'm stuck on a ward with visitors around all the time it will greatly affect my mental health, which has already taken a huge battering due to unexpectedly being pregnant with twins. I'm already worried about feeding, sleep deprivation and how I'll generally cope when they're here. If I'm uncomfortable in hospital, I suspect breastfeeding will go out the window for one thing. And that's not right. But I don't feel I can get adequate support with that while there are strangers who could overhear on the other side of a curtain. And I'm sorry to those of you who disagree with all that, but to me, my mental health is very important. It's just as important as anybody else's needs, physical or mental.

I have no way of quantifying this of course, but most (not all) of the women who are advocating for men being there have had bad experiences. If you've had a bad experience and your partner being there has 'solved' that, of course you're going to think that is the solution. And I 'get' that, I do. But really, it's not the solution, the solution is sorting out maternity care.

As for 'men deserve to be there' - nah. Sorry. They have long visiting hours to bond, most ppl are only on the ward for a day or two. They can take their half of the maternity leave period and bond all they like...

Another who thinks it's a disgraceful idea to allow partners to stay overnight. It is a hospital ward, not a hostel dorm, and as for the ridiculous suggestion that women who don't like the idea should pay for a private room, well, frankly, YOU pay for the bloody room if you're so hellbent on bringing someone else in! I don't want your husband there when I'm trying to recover from childbirth and bleeding everywhere, discussing stitches and whatever. As for worrying about including men, isn't childbirth the one time when it's all about the mother (and child)? If a man can't cope with slightly restricted access to his partner while she's in the postnatal ward, as he would have to if she were in any other hospital department, well ...

Plinkyplonks - you're rights are obviously special and need to be put above others right - do you not think this describes you?

You'd use your Muslim faith to manipulate to get a private room? Perhaps above women who have had terrible deliveries? Whose babies are in special care? Whose babies were born still born but still need to recover from surgery?

Yes, I absolutely would I am afraid. I am Muslim btw. Because the idea of staying on a ward in which strangers sleep in armchairs and see me in a vulnerable state of undress is so utterly unconscionable. I would be happy to stay on a ward, but only if there were no men present.

But don't worry, because I live in a more civilised country where the average person would be horrified by this idea and I am unlikely to ever need to give birth there. (Even less likely after reading this thread!) So I am glad that sense prevails somewhere at least! I feel very sorry for women giving birth in the UK - this sounds absolutely terrible.

It's not about solving a bad experience, it's about support - emotional, physical, mental support as well as helping with the baby. Nurses can't be expected to do all of that. Throughout the pregnancy to birth experience , there is huge focus on support systems - who is going to be there for you, birthing partners etc. But as soon as the baby is born, we remove those support systems when a woman is at her most vulnerable :/

AllThePrettySeahorses No I don't think mine should be put above anyone else's. When I was in hospital, I was alone at a time when I needed support from my husband. Other people's rights were put above my own. In hospital, I was given an overdose of blood pressure meds twice by nurses - i was close to collapsing. i had been woken every 2 hours for 2 weeks due to pre eclampsia pre birth and on a ward of unsupported women post birth. I was left to shower high on morphine and close to passing out before my husband was allowed to come in and look after me.

I was in a private room alone suffering from after effects of high blood pressure with nurses seldom checking on me. I saw women sobbing because they needed help and the relief on their faces when, after a sleepless night, their partners arrived in the morning to help with the baby.

The NHS does not have enough money to provide the care it should be providing to patients.

I think there has to be a better way than we have now - there were plenty of wards available. I don't think it's beyond reason to split the wards so that women have the choice to have that support available or not.

It's not about putting one person's rights over another, it's about giving women (and family's) choices. There is so much emphasis on women's choices before and during birth, but so little about the after care.

It would help if hospitals actually surveyed patients about what services they'd like to see and make those survey results public to justify their stance on their issue.

Actually plinkyplonks, I believe that nursing staff are there to provide physical, emotional and mental support. What else are they there for? It's just that there aren't enough of them.

I agree totally with AllThePrettySeahorses

I'm only 9w, so birth is a long way off, but I personally would hate staying on a ward where partners stayed overnight; not through any fear of them doing anything, but just because I'm generally introverted and not a particular fan of being around other people. But that's just me; I sort of hate the idea of staying on a ward with anyone else in it at all, but know it's the norm, and single rooms are generally for people with genuine reasons for being in them.

It's probably worth stating that I'm single (by choice), so freely admit that I am coming at this from a different point of view; I won't have an other half to help me out at any point in pregnancy/parenthood so I don't have the trepidation of being in hospital and having to cope with things without my partner by my side.

In a perfect world there would be 'family wards' with broader visiting hours and overnight possibilities for people who wanted partners staying over and who had many people they wanted to be able to see, then there would be 'quiet wards' for people like me who, for whatever reason, preferred a quieter day time, and mums and babies only over night.

Obviously that's not likely to happen across the whole country in the next 7 months, but the hospital I'm looking at choosing has limited visiting hours and a restriction of up to 2 visitors per bed, but partners can stay until 9, so it seems fairly balanced. Single rooms, if not in use, can be paid for, so it's nice to know that's an option if I'm really stressing out about the postnatal stuff when I go into labour. Probably won't be the first thing on my mind though! Might ask what the prices are when I visit, just so I know in advance.