Man sleeping on ward

[heylottie]

I am on a 4 bed maternity ward, a small ward with beds divided by curtains. 5 day old dd currently in SCBU getting help with low blood sugar.

Its been awful but I can't fault the care and kindness of the nursing staff who are great

But

Last night a woman was admitted at 11pm, I didn't see her as curtains drawn. I was aware that someone was sat in the chair next to my curtain, ie two foot from my bed. I got up at 2am and went to the loo.

Turns out her husband was asleep on the chair.

I don't know if I am coming or going at moment, but I don't think this is appropriate is it? Woman was asleep. I mentioned to staff and they said oh he's waiting for his baby to settle in the incubator. Whilst I appreciate that, could he not have waited in the family tv room down the corridor?

Or am I being over sensitive? I just think this is a vulnerable enough time without this.

Sorry bit lat coming back, but no morgauses rights as a patient do not trump those of another patient. Therefore why are her rights to desire not to have a man in the vicinity more important than the rights of two other patients, mother and child, to have the father there to advocate, help and bond.

Short answer - they aren't.

She is in Sweden. Never been in a UK maternity ward.

For me, the issue is that ward rooms are not designed to sleep non-patient adults - there are 4-6 beds for patients and 1 loo. Doubling the occupancy for any reason is unacceptable. On top of the fact that, for whatever reason, many patients do not want to sleep and share a loo with 4-6 non-patient adults.

The ward the op was on, and the ward I was on didn't have free for all visiting. In this case the rights of one patient to not have 24 visiting do trump the rights of another patient who wants 24 hour visiting. Wild horses couldn't drag me to a hospital that allowed it and I have the right to expect the rules to be enforced in the hospital I am in. People on other wards aren't suddenly allowed to decide that they want people outside of visiting either.

The man isn't the patient, RhondaJean. Only patients have rights in hospital and one of those is a right to reasonable amount of privacy.

Or maybe it should be a vote? The other patients in the ward are asked if they mind if the father stays. They say they do mind and out he goes. If they don't mind then he stays. Does that seem fairer? One woman's wishes do not trump those of 3 or 4 others.

No one patients rights trump those of another, even if you do agree with their desire.

'Therefore why are her rights to desire not to have a man in the vicinity more important than the rights of two other patients, mother and child, to have the father there to advocate, help and bond.'

Because, thankfully, most hospital policies realise this is, at the least, unpractical, and can represent a source of distress to many women, who are patients, a security risk and a source of additional and unnecessary work when the staffing levels are lower (in past threads about this, staff have brought up having to buzz visitors in and out for fags, visitors approaching staff asking for tea and coffee and food for themselves, finding partners laying on the patient beds, shoes on, sleeping, and the mum sat in the chair as the partner was uncomfortable, having to wait on security to eject an unpleasant partner who is threatening, etc).

Several people have pointed out instances in which partners did not know how to behave, and staff have pointed out how it's not as easy as asking such troublesome people to leave.

M not discussing the rights of men, beyond not to be stereotyped as a whole because of the behaviour of the lowest common denominator.

I'm discussing the rights of new mothers to have the support and help which will be most beneficial to their individual circumstances and the rights of babies to have their paternal parent there.

One persons reasonable amount of privacy is going to feel very different to anothers. That does not make either right, or either wrong.

I live in Sweden, I am English and I have experienced my mum being on the postnatal ward when I was 18 and it was horrific, really dangerous for her and my baby sister.

My mum had an emergancy c-section, she was given a private room but neither me or my stepdad were allowed to stay to help her. My mum had been given morphine, she was numb from the waist down, she was attatched to monitors so she couldn't physically get up. She called the midwives in the night to ask them to take the baby as she was feeling dizzy and she couldn't hold the baby as her arms were too week and she kept falling asleep, the midwives refused. My sister screamed and screamed as she wanted to suck, my mum couldn't physically get it together to breastfeed the baby. The bed was too small to safely co-sleep (i don't think you can really safely co-sleep after taking morphine but unsafe co-sleeping is arguably better than a baby on the floor) The baby did a poo the went all over her clothes but my mum couldn't change her as she couldn't get out of the bed. The midwives rufused to take the baby as they said their policy was to keep baby and mother together to promote breastfeeding (my mum had breastfed both of her older children for more than a year and fully intended to bf baby sister but couldn't physically hold her) The midwives ignored her calls after that and she was in a room all alone. Early in the morning after my mum had been half asleep half awake with a screaming baby covered in poo all night a cleaner came into the room, my mum very emotionally insisted the cleaner take the baby, cleaner said he couldn't touch the baby and my mum (very forcefully) said you have to take her right now. The cleaner took the baby and she was taken and cleaned up and put in new clothes and given a bottle. My mum had a sleep and sarted to feel a bit better.

When the family visited that day I felt so upset and angry that my mum had to suffer like that and my sister was put in a potentially dangerous situation just because of hospital policy. That night when my mum was going through hell all alone I was at home, my stepdad was at home, my mums sister and all her friends who would ofcourse have been willing to help were just at home relaxing. It is fucking horrific that in a developed suposidly civilised country a woman can be left to cope at such a hard time all by herself. In no other culture would women be abandoned, either women would have the support of their partner or family or they would have decent professional support.

I also feel strongly that it is an important precedent to set as a society that men are as important to the family as women, The aftercare of the mother and the care of the baby in the first few days is their responsibility, it is such an important time, the baby recognises the dad's voice even in the first few hours of life, I think babies and fathers deserve that time together and mothers deserve the support.

Ts a really feeble argument saying men don't know how to behave in public, sorry but it just is.

'One woman's wishes do not trump those of 3 or 4 others.'

Yep, if the policy is no partners over night, that's what it means.

She is in Sweden. Never been in a UK maternity ward.

Please don't assume things about me, if you do feel the need to assume things about me don't then tell other people about your assumptions as if they are fact.

'Ts a really feeble argument saying men don't know how to behave in public, sorry but it just is.'

So all the women on this thread and others who had experiences of such behaviour in partners are lying or their experiences should be miniminsed?

I had experience of plenty of partners and visitors who did not behave well in hospital setting and was glad I did not have to spend the night with them.

Is it not true you are in Sweden? That is not an assumption, you have said you are yourself on other threads. You have also said you did not stay in a ward after birth. You have no experience of being a postnatal patient in the UK ward setting. That is not an assumption. That is true.

Policies can be incorrect, and can be changed.

I'm seriously interests if anyone can find any research on paternal involvement in the first few days of a child's life and outcomes for the child. I think weebairn was very eloquent up there about benefits for her family, and idea.

What you all seem to miss is that none of us are saying there should be a one size suits all - I'm somewhat disappointed you are, and that you are trying to impose your views of what is best on all women.

No one is saying it should be minimised.

I'm saying that because a minority of people of one group - gender, age, nationality, you pick - may behave in one way, it is completely wrong to infer that all people belonging to that group share the characterstic and should be treated in such a way.

After all, that's what women have been fighting against for generations isn't it.

Same as you, Rhonda. I've expressed opinions about partners sleeping overnight in wards, not side rooms or private rooms. IMO, it is unacceptable. I would not have a child in a hospital that allowed this and would campaign against such a change in possibility when it comes to ward rooms as they exist now.

I have been in a uk postnatal ward many times whilst visiting friends and family. I spent all day there whilst my mum was in hospital after the birth of my sister.

The wards were horrible, really really unpleasent and it really effected me seeing the way women close to me were treated and it made me feel very strongly about the way childbirth is delt with in the UK.

Visiting. I've visited a lot of places. Not the same as spending the night there. AT ALL.

F you read back a bit expat, I was discussing the other night whether changes are needed to teh way maternity services are delivered to ensure the most suitable accomodation for each mother (that comment wasn't particularly to you anyway btw, the second one was though).

The best situation would be mothers and babies who want the father there to have that, and to have that great start, and those who find it intimidating to be accommodated in other spaces. I wouldn't mind a man next to me at all, many women wouldn't, but if the set up isn't right then it's the SET UP we need to get changed.

I have never seen a rule on mumsnet that says only those with the exact same experience need comment. I hope you don't have opinions about anything that you havn't experienced yourself.

Did you have your partner with you after birth? If not how do you know it wouldn't be preferable to have them with you on the ward?

IKEA, certainly in the hospital I was in, any mother who might have additional needs stays on the main wards to avoid the midwives not noticing an issue as it arises. Also in the hospital I was in, co-sleeping wasn't allowed as hospital beds are high and fairly narrow and floors are hard.

If you've visited maternity wards and seen the space and (lack of) acoustics, can you see why people are concerned? Fitting in six more people is just not realistic.

Maybe the dads could sit in the tv room, they could watch films and drink coffee whilst cuddling the babies.

"Did you have your partner with you after birth? If not how do you know it wouldn't be preferable to have them with you on the ward?"

Because I have declined visitors, including my partner because I have wanted to go to sleep. It is not compulsory to have visitors with you every second of the assigned visiting hours, it is a choice you make as a patient, within the rules of the ward, or at least it should be.

So, what if you had a baby which demanded constant attention and couldn't be out down so you could go for that convenient sleep?

'Did you have your partner with you after birth? If not how do you know it wouldn't be preferable to have them with you on the ward?'

I did when I had DD1 in a private room, he stayed overnight because policy permitted it in private rooms, but he went home the second night as he was very tired and I was fine with that. I went home six hours after having DD2 and spent 2 days in a ward after having DS.

No, I would not have wanted my husband with me in the ward. It was, for one thing, crowded.