Oh FFS is Vbac really better than another section?

[Flum]

Trying to work out if it is worth holding out or not.....

I hasten to add that I have another 30 mins work to do for my thesis corrections so I'm on a bit of a silly high

Highlander,

I am chortling at your little ditty.

without a shadow of a doubt YES. I don't care what they say about it not mattering how babies arrive as long as they are ok. IT DOES MATTER of course it does and nayone who says is doesn't is a lier and is trying to kid themselves. I really feel sorry for those women who, whether by choice or not, have never given birth normally

trip trap

what does that mean?

With regards to pelvic floors... there is a whole chapter on this in MCHEL ODENT'S BOOK THE CAESAREAN (PP96 to 100) - sorry about capsm
The final conclusion is that the protective effect of cesarean on incontinence dissipates by age 50, so that older women have the same rate of urinary incontinence regardles of the way they gave birth.

Just been at a worksshop on ceasarean sections and have to say that my overwhelming conclusion is that whilst it has beocme a safer operation it does remain an op.... and it has many side effects... many of which are not discussed (often).

Flum at the end of the day you have to make the right decision for you. Someome below posted some good resources.... good luck to you what ever you decide.

Can I say that success rate of VBAC is very high when doulas are present... if that helps

Nice ditty, Highlander.

Spacdust
I feel sorry for women who think natural (not to be confused with "normal")childbirth is something to be proud of. It is simply one way to get the baby out.

funnily enough, I don't feel that I've missed on anything by not having a vag birth. I did sit down this time and think about it very carefully, asking myself the question - what exactly am I missing by having another CS? Errr, nothing. Sorry, just can't seem to drum up any enthusiasm for the "experience" at all. But then I guess I'm unusual in that my opinion is that I have "given birth", and I will not have anyone tell me otherwise

Totally agree, Highlander.

Each time I went back to the delivery suite (ie for DS2 and DS3) the main thought that was running through my mind was "Wish I could have a c-section..."

Spacedust, assuming you are not a troll, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that the way it happens is more important than the outcome.

Giving any consideration to opinions such as that you've expressed on here can only lead to an increased guilt-trip or potential for an emotional low possibly leading to post natal depression amongst women who needed a c-s.

You must be a troll, apart from the fact that you can't spell, you'd have to be very misguided (or stupid) to value method of delivery over outcome in terms of their importance.

Interestingly I read there is a higher rate of PND amongst women who have had a section.

Probably because of the vast number of people who come up to them and say things like "I'm sorry." as if they did something wrong. Or the number of people who walk up to their friends and who have delivered vaginally and say, "well done, you".

Women are often made to feel a failure for having medical intervention and I wouldn't be one bit surprised if this contributes to post natal depression.

Oh look, you are right, normsknockers. That is spacedusts only post on mumsnet. If it smells like a troll and it looks like troll........ it's probably a troll.

Uwila- why is it hard for you to understand and accept that yes we do have a right to feel good about giving birth vaginally as a choice! Yes we feel proud and yes it is the "natural" way of doing it... and of course sometimes sections are life saviours.... and often they are the result of bad labour care !
So you chose to have a section for your 2nd child and you were happy with that choice... good for you!
Is it possible for some to feel bad about a section... yes plenty do... because others make stupid comments... probably sometimes this is true (wonder why they feel to make such comments???)... but also because many didn't want to give birth this way... for some of us it is important to birth vaginally, the hormone release, the sense of achievment and relief to see a baby come through your birth canal (hey call me a hippie!) etc...

There are plenty of consequences to a section not least more difficulties to concieve, difficulties in breastfeeding, more babies in SCBU, organ damage (many women do go for repair later on in life due to abrasions!), I have personally seen 2 babies scared on their face from a sclapel, I also know one woman who had to have a hysterectomy !

But I will support and defend ANY woman's right to have a section if it is her choice..... I object to poor obstetric care !

i dont see how poepel can think that cvoluntarily having your sotmach cut open adnhaveing a stinky drip cna be good.
i was hoppoing aroudn heward after my normal birth.
poor c section musm on their beds
and i have control over all parts of my fanny area thanks

I have to say I agree with spacedusts post. 'She' doesn't say that the method of delivery matters more than the outcome (presuming you mean the baby by that Normsnockers?), just that it does matter. I am currently 39w pg and planning a home VBAC. Obviously the most important thing is that the baby and I come out OK at the other end, but that isn't everything. The mothers mental health and physical health matter too, and if these are affected by the c/s (whether you think that they should be or not), then this is an important consideration.

I hope that this time I will be able to tell myself that I did everything possible to avoid a c/s, but I can't guarantee that I will feel OK 'mentally' about a c/s if I have to have one. I am pleased for people that have repeat c/s's that don't feel this way, and wish that I could feel that the mode of delivery doesn't matter at all, but to me it does.

I felt that cs was the worst thing in the world until ... I had to have an emergency section. Now I am seriously considering an elective. The downsides of cs are overplayed - and made me feel like a failure at the time as if I was someone to be pitied. Now I know better!

What downsides are overplayed?

Downsides which are often overplayed:
(1) recovery time is often said to be several weeks - in my case it was 24 hours to be up and walking about, 2 weeks to feel fully recovered
(2) not driving for 6 weeks - an urban myth, I was driving after 4 weeks and could have done it earlier if I'd known

I think the only way of really answering this question would be to do a survey of, say, 10,000 women who have tried for VBACs and see what percentage were pleased they had tried and what percentage wished they had gone for an elective Caesarean. I'd love to see the results, but as far as I know no survey has been done on that scale. My guess is it would be about 50:50, which doesn't help flum of course.

By the way pupuce, there is no evidence that C-sections cause women difficulties in conceiving. There is evidence that women who've had C-sections go on to have slightly fewer children, but it's making a big leap to assume that they can't have more children, or that if so the fertility problems are caused by the C-section. I can think of 3 reasons for the statistics: (1) women who have undergone emergency C-sections usually have bad birth experiences, and some of them will not want to risk repeating it (this is supported by the fact that women who've had forceps deliveries also go on to have slightly fewer children), (2) often the reason for the C-section is a gynaecological problem like fibroids or endemetriosis which in itself can cause infertility and (3) often it's older women who have C-sections, and they are more likely to have fertility problems anyway. So in (2) and (3), it's not the C-section which causes the fertility problems, it's the other way round.

I had two very positive experiences of C sections. DD was an emergency and ds planned.( I had chosen a section over VBAC, but ds was a footling breach anyway) Was off the drip the day after the section and was up and about the day after the section. In fact, I was better with ds than dd, since I didn't go through labour first and then the section IYSWIM.

Although I have a slight 'groucho marx' walk , I was walking better than some of the mums who had more traumatic vaginal deliveries.

I also drove before the 4 week mark, and had no problems coping with dd after ds was born that we caused by the section.

Get all the information that you can, and make the decision that you are happy with.

I have had 2 children by section and three the natural way. I have to say that it mattered to mr very much how the babies came out.
With the sections I had no sense of acheivment. I had not given birth, someone had taken them out, I was not actively giving birth, and I still feel that way.
With the last three I felt so empowered, and still do. It does matter to a huge number of women how their children come into the world. They feel they are true women because they have done what they are ultimately here to do (Biologically speaking). Fine if that doesn't matter to you, but you should not attack people like spacedust for their views.
What IS a troll? Is it short for something on mumsnet? Or are you insulting someone because you don't agree with their views. That's not very good really.

a 'troll' is general internet shorthand for a poster who posts delibertaly argumantaive or inflamatory posts to enjoy the fuss it causes other posters. This isn't a MN thing specificaly.

Sometimes trolls only post onve, just to create a stir.

In the past 'trolls' have posted, for example, this it is OK to let children swig calpol.....and then sat back to 'enjoy' the upset and worry they had caused

Thanks for that!

Actually I said what I did because I am fed up of hearing people say that vbac isn't all it's cracked up to be. I have my suspicions that women who make those comments do so because they are trying to justify elective sections to themselves. Emergency sections are of course lifesavers, there are , however, a large number of women who, despite being eternally grateful for a section that has given them a healthy baby, truly feel sorry that they did not have a natural birth.
I do not think it is right that a woman can choose to have a section on the grounds that she wants one rather than that she will need one.