Oh FFS is Vbac really better than another section?

[Flum]

Trying to work out if it is worth holding out or not.....

FLum, I had an emergency section with ds1 and VBAC for ds2. ALthough the VBAC very nearly ended up in an emergency section - v long labour again, contractions started to wane, baby had to be pulled out by ventouse without a contraction leading to epesiotomy and horrible extension tear. 10 days later discovred ds2 had a fractured clavicle as a result!!
So not a great advocate of VBAC here I'm afraid. But hardly a typical experience

Also, I found the recovery from the stictches much much more painful than the section. THat said, the pain was limited to about 10-14 days and after that I felt 'normal', whereas although I wasn't in pain from the section I did feel pretty steamrollered for much longer than 14 days.
Not planning another but if we were, I'd go for an elective section as I just don't think my body is capable of actually getting the bloody thing out by itself!

Blu .. yes I am .. it is information I was given by a genito-urinary consultant .. it is the weight of pregnancy that does a lot of the damage .. the labour is minor .. but it is enough so that after 2 section deliveries one's pelvic floor is somewhat protected .. but by the time of the 3rd pregnancy it evens out .. of course this doesn't take account of how good your pelvic floor is to begin with and how conscientious you are with your kegels etc

Thanks again all.

Smoogle - not what I wanted to hear obviously it seems to be a bit of a lottery either way though doesn't it!

Mears - I am trying to get a later date for the c-section but they reckon they are full for the rest of the week. I might ring and try to change though as surely some of the ladies will deliver naturally and free up an elective slot!

just to add that I found my episiotomy stitches hardly hurt at all and my c section stitches/scar killed for ages so it really realy is a personal thing I guess. my vbac was ventouse/episiotomy and about 10000 times better and less painful overall than my c section.

no! I begged doc to let me try for a vbac... once the labour pains started I was sooo sorry i did!

doc preformed an interal after 12 hrs in labour.. (tmi, sorry) and said i ahd only got to 3 inch and babys head had gone back up (needed gas and air for this, was sooo f*ing painful, but he WAS pusjhing the babys head up!)
nurse said if that hurt luv u need a section, adn i was soooo grateful for one!

I had emergency section first time round for failure to progress after induction. I had a date set for an elective section second time round as had high blood pressure but went into labour naturally and had a VBAC before I really knew what was happening. It was a surprise as I'd expected a section but fine as an experience (I've never been bothered about giving birth naturally - key thing is welfare of Mum and baby).

I'd always assumed i would have sections since my first experience suggested to me that my body wasn't much good at giving birth and, if I had gone overdue again, I would definitely have had a section. For me, the key was that second time round my body went for it, so to speak, without any conscious decision on my part. Had there been any "problems" - being overdue, very slow to dilate etc I would have gone straight to section.

What I'm trying to say not very clearly is that my personal feeling is that VBACs only work if the body kicks in without any outside intervention (this is assuming you don't mind how you give birth). If you are overdue, progress is very slow, etc, I personally think that means your body is telling you it isn't ready and that if you try for a VBAC in these circumstances you're likely to end up with a section or some kind of medical intervention like an episiotomy. I'll probably be shot down in flames now by those who know better but I think that is how my body works and I would go by this rule of thumb if I ever have a third birth.

i had v-bac after 13 year gap had minimal pain in labour but dragged on, had 3rd degree tear, so same recovery time but different type of recovery. more internal than both type of after effects as with c-section. i felt better having done it myself. i had emerg section due 2 foetal distress & depression because of sense of failure. Didnt have that this time round so mentally & emotionally felt better also could look after baby better with no physical effects stopping me. i wasnt really as prepared 4 labor as i thought not having been thru b4, now know better. the tear didnt worry me, all part of it, the length of time did cos i couldnt walk around 2 speed things up due 2 constant monitoring that annoyed me more, when i did have freedom of movement labor sped up, cos of v-bac dr constantly had me hooked up which slowed things alot. next time i know what 2 expect so will b more prepared

Mower - Hope honesty doesn't trouble you & am sorry to burst bubbles - I had emergency section with first babe. All very dramatic at the time but I recovered really well & felt great. That was Feb 04. I had babe #2 in Feb this year & had a VBAC and I found the whole thing traumatic. Took weeks to recover & was verging on postnatal. I was hooked up to monitor from the moment I got into room so mobility was minimal, was slow to progress then it all changed & I had constant contractions - no break at all. Then everything stopped. When babe eventually arrived I was exhausted, upset & annoyed that I had had the option to elect a section. I had stitches after tearing & was uncomfortable & swollen & sore for weeks. I felt awful - didn't leave the house for 4wks. I delivered babe 2 after using gas & air & I had a diamorphine injection. Begged & pleaded for an epidural &/or section but was apparently 'way too high' for epidural & section was out of question as I had progressed to 10cm. If the midwives had accurately predicted size of babe #2 (I had a scan at 38wks) then I would have had an elective section, as babe #1 size was why I ran into difficulties (9lb4oz) but they were a couple of pounds out & #2 was 9lb3oz. At the end of the day you never know until you try, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I don't regret my VBAC but if I had the foresight to of known how VBAC would of been I would have opted for an elective section. Every birth is so different, it is so difficult to say what is the best thing to do. I would just take what the midwives say with a pinch of salt - recovery isn't always quicker, ok, you are home the same or next day (but the pain killers are still working then). Am glad that I am stopping at two, is all I can say. I am happy for those who enjoyed it all, my mother is ashamed of me!! Shes ahd 4 of us - gas & air only & not a single tear. How do you live up to that!!

I have had 2 c-sections and am currently 38 weeks pregnant with my third child. I have done a huge amount of research into which option would be best for me and vbac is the one i am going for. I will be having a home water birth as i do not believe i would have a good chance of sucess in hospital. There are to many things to fight against like constant monitoring and time restrictions. Of course i will transfer in if we think things are going to go wrong. Yahoo has a really good vbac group that can give loads of info.

I had a traumatic first birth with a posterior baby, failure to progress, pushing for over four hours with just gas & air, tried everything, transferred hospital at 60 miles p/h and ended up with an emergency c/section. Was in pretty bad shape for a week after and had no backup at home for recovery apart from a shattered husband (who passed out day three at home and ended up in hospital himself). I've waited until now, four years later, to have another baby. Have been worried about the birth since week 3! Was told I have 75% chance of sucessful VBAC IF (big IF) I am 100% wanting a VABAC, which I am certainly not! So I am currently opting for a planned c/section: it can't be worse than before... surely?! I am not planning any more than 2 children. Will be able to sort out the backup this time around as well. Feel a bit of a wimp, but figure I tried sufficient for TWO births first time around and just want the easiest option. Everyone I know who has had planned c/sections recovered quickly.

Why on earth do you have a c-section booked for 9 days over your due date?

Sounds like you want a c-section really flum but only you know the answer to that...

wouldn't say a VBAC was 'better' necessarily its what you want to do

Am having the same decision making process. The big thing for me is avoiding the frantic emergency c-section. It would be lovely to have a "natural" birth in a pool with minimal pain relief, but this is me in the real world... The only way I can get that is to risk the emergency, and with odds of 30% against... My hospital have also said they wouldn't want me to push for more than an hour, also I'd be hooked up to a monitor the whole time, so no pool anyway.

I had a c-section last time for breech baby who decided to arrive early, so it was probably more like an elective than an emergency. Also at Queen Charlotte's and the theatre staff there were wonderful, as Uwila said. I am 90% decided to go for an elective this time.

Another important factor to consider is how much support will you have at home afterwards? DH and Mum between them have said they'll be here for the first 6 weeks, and by that time last time, I was fine. But as some others have said on here, terrible tearing can mean you can't sit down for a couple of weeks as well. Swings and roundabouts...

Good luck.

I had three caesareans, two during labour, one pre-warned and before labour started but not elective. When I discovered I was unintentionally pregnant with number 4 I had done a lot of research on VBAC and talked to a lot of people. I booked an independent midwife and a water pool.

I had come to realise by then that my bad births were down to incompetent care AND my lack of faith in my body. Having taken the time to find out how birth really works and what makes it work better I had every confidence in having a home water birth. It was a wonderful experience: 6 hours, start to finish, no tearing, no pain relief other than the pool.

If you truly want a VBAC (and who could blame those who don't having had such miserable first experiences of hospital labour) you need to read the evidence about the policies suggested around VBAC, most of them have none. Restricted movement, restricted time frame, frightening women by calling it Trial of Labour or, worse, Trial of Scar makes it unnecessarily hard to have a straightforward birth. Frightened women do not labour well and may end up having the long slow labour ending in repeat caesarean which they do dread because they release so much adreniline that slows labour and makes it more painful. As to tearing, the same evidence applies to VBAC as to any other birth - perineal massage, waterbirth, homebirth, being upright in labour, avoiding epidural will all reduce your risk.

Walking into most consultant led units and expecting to have a straightforward birth is what many of us do, and when we have awful births what do we blame? Ourselves, our bodies, the birth process itself. Women who have straightforward births are considered "lucky", women who book homebirths are "mad".

If you really want to avoid repeat experience of a bad birth then maybe the answer isn't repeat caesarean, maybe the answer is to really look at the evidence about what reduces tearing, pain etc and then act on it.

You can find out more about VBAC and how to have a good one and the evidence, or lack of it, around hospital policies by looking at \link{http://caesarean.org.uk\this website} qhich was written by two experts in the field - one of them was asked to sit on the government's NICE panel on Caesarean Section guidelines for hospitals. You might also like to read "Birth After Caesarean" available from www.aims.org.uk - I am biased because I wrote it but it has had very good reviews and I tried to keep it as balanced as possible given the overriding evidence that repeat caesarean is more risky for mum and baby.

I hope you reach a decision that is right for you - the NCT has elective caesarean and VBAC support volunteer workers to whom you can talk if you want some one to one support. If you definitely want to VBAC or to find out more about it then there are some wonderful women on the support group called UKVBACHBAC which you can find on www.yahoogroups.com.

I hope this helps a bit,

Best wishes,

Jenny Lesley

Enid. The consultant wanted to book me for c-section term +7 so was quite pleased had negotiated to +9

to be honest really am in a dilemma. With the c-section its a bit a case of better the devil you know. with a spontaneous labour who knows what could happen.....

ho hum

midwife will see me Sunday and might postpone c-section if I am feeling confident!

Emergency c-section the first time and found it all horrible. Took ages to recover and was a bit traumatised. Had a virtually drugless VBAC second time and even though I needed forceps, the next day I felt fab. Said to my DH, 'Well that wasn;t too bad, was it?' and he almost collapsed! Absolutely staggered me how much better I felt.

Just thought I would add to this, I had my 2nd baby in Nov 05 and from the outset I knew that I didn't want a repeat of my first birth experience which had ended in an ecs after 41+ hours.
I was very positive from the outset and had a few battles along the way but had a very supportive husband, and the midwives who supported me were 100% behind me. I also had a Doula colleague to support us. So we had all the boxes for my birth plan ticked in so much as protecting our birth experience and how I wanted to give birth. You have to want to do it in order to have a go and succeed. A good positive mental attitude. I had requested a HVBAC and was transferred in as I needed my waters breaking. I delivered my littel one 3 1/2 hours after being transferred in and it was the most amazing feeling and I couldn't stop grinning from ear to ear as I had done this on my terms in the hospital environment. Established labour was 9 hours 5 minutes. It was a very positive birth experience and I am so glad that at no point was I recommended to have an elective. The Consultant and eventually the midwife were supportive of MY choice

If you would like to know more email me and I can direct you to our birth story. There are lots of women who have very positive & beautiful VBAC experiences which help them lay to rest the negative feelings they had about their 1st, 2nd or even 3rd c-section in some cases.

Believe in yourself and trust your body to do what it needs to do and instinctively knows how to birth your baby.

Flum - I haven't read all the posts so I'm not commenting on what anyone else may have said.

I wanted to do VBAC but consultants really confused me. originally I was told I wouldn't be 'allowed' to go overdue at all and then another consultant said it wasn't a problem.

In the end I booked a c-section for term + 7 days just in case baby hadn't made an appearance. She didn't & so I had the planned section. I don't regret it at all as all went well but I'm glad I hung on at least a few days. I don't think I would have felt comfortable leaving it too much longer but in the end I think it's an entirely personal decision and only you can know how you feel. I would resist being pushed into section if you don't want one but at the same time don't give yourself a hard time if you do. It shoudl be your choice.

Good luck xxx

I had emergency c-section with my DS as he was breech. Was told all along during my second pregnancy that I would be able to have a natural birth and if I had to be induced, they'd give me one chance and if that didn't work they would book me in for another c-section. Then at my due date they turned the tables and said hospital policy would not allow my to give birth naturally as I had a previous c-section. Well, it felt as though my world had fallen apart. I couldn't stop crying. I was angry at the hospital changing their mind and angry that they wouldn't even give me a chance. My DS is on the go constantly and I don't have any parents so after my DH's paternity leave I would have been on my own and not able to be as mobile as I needed to be if I'd had a c-section. I rang my midwife in tears and she told me to ring the hospital and speak to the sister in charge who put my in touch with the head of the labour ward who said it was nonsense and I should be given a chance at natural labour. I went in to see her at 40weeks+12 days and she said I was already 5cms and asked if I wanted my waters broken. She broke them at about 11am. I didn't dilate any more so they put me on a drip at 7.30pm and I gave birth to our DG at 00.35hrs by using gas and air. It was the best experience ever. Yes the contractions were fast and strong but the gas and air helped me through and being able to see our baby girl born and knowing I did it all myself was just the best. I did have a second degree tear as she came out with her hand on her cheek but it wasn't too bad. Honestly, I'm so pleased I didn't go for a c-section again. Natural birth for me was so much better and I'm kinda proud of myself too. Just wish my mum was here to see her gorgeous grandchildren x

I totally agree with maternal touch. My first 2 were by section and the next three naturally and without pain relief, the last one at home 3 days before xmas last year. Unless there is a physical reason why you cannot give birth normally, then you CAN do it, However, fear is your greatest enemy. If you are frightened, tense and have little trust in your own ability to birth your baby, then the chances are you will need help, possibily another section because your birthing body has shut down.
It's all in the mind you know, really it is!

15 months between my 2 dd's. emergency cs with dd1, tried for vbac with dd2, another emergency cs. with hindsight, still glad i tried for natural delivery, even if it never happened. good luck whatever happens, the important thing is that you're all ok.

You've got to do what's right for you and the baby - good luck if you go for VBAC. It also probably depends on your feelings and memories on your first birth.

I had ecs last February, and have already decided that for future births, I'll go for an elective caesarian - this is purely based on the long and complicated labour I experienced first time round and my rational fears about future traumatic deliveries. I've decided that I've given it a go the once, and never again!! From speaking to friends, elective caesarians seem great - calm, safe and a really positive experience. I feel so negative about my first experience, that an elective would restore the balance. Also, elective caesarians are safer to you and the baby than emergency ones. If the odds were better that I could avoid an ecs, then maybe I'd given a home birth a go....

Good luck however your baby arrives - and as long as you're both healthy and the delivery is safe, you really have nothing else to worry about!!

here is how i sometimes decide things:

1. if you had an elective c-section, and werent recovering quick enough for your needs, you would probably think, i wish i had given v-bac a chance.

2. If you tried a v-bac, and things didn't go so well (mine didnt!), you probably think, i wish i had had elective.

Wish situation is preferrential/would you rather not be in.

Its probably a negative way of making decisions, but it helps me think through all the possibilities. Hopefully, whichever way you decide, things go well.

Even though my v-bac recovery was quite traumatic, i am glad i gave it a chance.

good luck, whatever happens

Mower, I had 2 children 12 months apart. The first was an emergency CS for distress and the second time I went for a VBAC which was successful. Hospital was surprised that I wanted to try for a VBAC because a lot of women in my area just request an elective CS, but I'm very glad I did it and wouldn't have had regrets if I'd needed another emergency CS because I knew that I needed to try.

I would just like to add that I have had two elective c-sections (pelvis quite small babies heads too large!!) and I recovered quickly from both. Second time around was much easier as I knew what to expect. As long as your sensible you will find recovery will be quick. Good luck.

I like my fanny, oh yes I do
I can control when I go for a poo

When I pee
It's up to me
Elective CS, it's gotta be...............