Oh FFS is Vbac really better than another section?

[Flum]

Trying to work out if it is worth holding out or not.....

Redshaw - I'm so sorry that your first birth experience, and subsequent pregnancy were awful. Don't get me wrong, I'm also very glad that my ds was taken out on time by em CS - there was absolutely no question of a vaginal birth at the time. Of course it was the most important thing that my baby was ok by the time he came out of hospital, but I wasn't simply a vessel for transporting him - whether it was VB or a CS I couldn't help having feelings about either method of delivery.

I have a choice now of trying either way, unless nature intervenes, I go into labour early and the risk factors (for myself and baby) of one type of birth outweigh the other.

Maybe it's a trite comparison, but it's like getting married. Doesn't matter what kind of wedding you have, the outcome is the same and you're married in the end, right? However, most people, I believe, have in their heads an idea of what their wedding will be like, whether they envisage a grand entrance in a white dress or a quickie ceremony at a Las Vegas chapel. Any type of wedding ceremony can be disasterous, or perfect, or somewhere in between. Some ceremonies suit some people more than others - sometimes you settle for something different than you always imagined because of personal circumstances. In an ideal world, though, you'd get your dream wedding, whatever that happens to be.

At the moment, I'm weighing up what I think will suit me, my family and my baby best.

If circumstances dictate otherwise at the time, I'll just go along with whatever is necessary.

I have been reading this with interest as I too amd considering whether to have an elective or a VBAC after a traumatic 36 hour labour ending in emc and daugyter in special care. I saw her for a second after she was born, dwas not allowed th her, and didn't see her again for four hours as she was in special care with an infection. I think if I had any confidence in mu hospital supporting me for VBAC I would do it. But I don't. So caesarean it is.

Ok well since I started this I might as well add my opinion having now done both.

I went for vbac and had my second dd this Monday. I had to have loads of monitoring due to blood pressure shooting up, the scar issue etc. After 6 hours labour and being on the machine and feeling the entonox didn;lt help I went for an epidural. That was amazing but it all ended up highly interventional - syntocine drip, ventouse birth, 2nd degree tear.

On balance - due to the discomfort from the tear I do wish I had opted for a c-section. But seeing the emotion on my dh's face when the baby was born was priceless and he did say he didn't feel like that when they whipped dd1 out of the sunroof!!!

Anyway it could have gone either way - if I had been a bit better with coping with the pain I think it might have been a bit quicker and perhaps less complex

Congratulations Flum. Was the baby a boy or a girl?

How is the pain from the tear a week later (in comparison to a c/s scar?)?

Flum I've posted on your other thread, but just wanted to add, there's no way I could cope with labour lying on my back the whole time either - with ds, it was just so much harder when I had to lie down for examinations than when I was standing up and that was only for a few minutes at a time.

Congratulations on your little girl, Flum! It's lovely that your dh reacted emotionally to the birth.

Have just read your other thread. You know, the monitoring is the main thing putting me off a VBAC. Others have already mentioned that intermittant monitoring is enough, and you don't necessarily have to agree to continual monitoring. It is not a midwife-led facility, as you mentioned, Carolina, btw, so I'm not sure how they'll react if I ask about it.

However, it's so easy to be scared into accepting continual monitoring - my dh in particular was horrified when my registrar mentioned 'catastrophic concequences' of uterine rupture "but that's very rare". Even if it is rare, couched in those terms, it doesn't exactly leave you brimming with confidence about your own body, and I'm sure that this fear, plus having to be monitored, just in case in happens (!!) affects labour.

Like Carolina, (although without actual experience) I KNOW I wouldn't be able to be on my back/semi-recumbant for labour - I have a domed sacrum, which makes it difficult for me to be on my back anyway, never mind having to labour in that position. I'm hoping that this fact will help me negotiate how I am monitored if I decide on a VBAC. I just think the whole process would work better if I have it on my terms - shame I'm mostly a bit of a wuss.

Congratualtions Flum on the birth of your little girl,

Hello hoppybird

Maybe worth not seeing this registrar as he does not sound like he is filling you with confidence, when I had my VBAC2 I relunctanctly agreed to have monitoring, worse thing I ever did, when DS3's heartbeat went down at each contraction (although it recovered quickly afterwards) the consultant panicked, she actually said "I do not know what is happening" and scared me so much that I agreed to another section, in actual fact he was going into distress because he was coming out so fast 1cm - 10cm in 10mins, luckily he came out before the knife did.

Do remember you do not have to ask them anything, you can tell them!!

Best wishes in what YOU decide

I have had two c-sections and am now 20 weeks pregnant with my 4th child.
I have read this thread all the way through, and I had the same thoughts in my previous pregnancy. Shall I go for a vbac or an elective c-section.
The doctors and the midwives at the hospital tried to scare me at every appointment. I wrote a birthplan that was comepletely ignored.
The 'labour' at the hospital was awful and stressful. The midwife had conversations with me like, 'why do you want to have more babies? have a hysterectomy and a career!' This was all during induced labour, with me trying to avoid the epidural. I wasn't 'allowed' to move, had to be flat on my back, and was physically and emotionally uncomfortable. After 72 hours of no sleep and very little food, I had a c-section.
This time, I know, that medics do not have you or your baby's best interests at heart, at least it is not as important to them as hospital policy. Just because I want a vba2c does not make me a selfish woman who wants to kill her baby.
There is a way to have a vbac without agreeing to hospital policy.
I have a choice, I am dictating to the hospital what I want. So far I have a had a row with one registrar and two midwives, or rather they shouted at me, and I refused to discuss it.
I am capable of making my own decisions, and have not taken leave of my sences. I am a grown woman.
Why should I be treated like an animal. I am only having a baby!
Yes I am fed up of the long recovery from a c-section. I have had a vaginal delivery, and it is way better, in my opinon.
I want a vbac, because I think it would be better for my baby, for me and for my family.

Congratulations Flum!

kdinas check this out, infact everybody, check this out, know your rights and be empowered. these people are also brill to talk to
www.aims.org.uk/

Well done everyone who is going for VBAC - but it's still not convinced me!!!

Number 1 was a 29 hour labour and ecs - my birth plan was completely ignored and as I didn't ever dilate past 3cm, the hospital didn't believe I was in labour, even though I couldn't talk, walk and contraction were coming every 3 mins!! I even had to sit in the hospital reception for 2 hours groaning!!!! Then, the hospital was too busy to take me, so had to labour in a ward, with another 3 women and their visitors around me - then the midwife showed my mother-in-law in as a visitor without asking me if I wanted her there (only my mum and husband were named as birth partners). Later on, when I'd finally got to a delivery suite, there was panic as the foetal heartbeat was lost, only for the staff to realise (after 30mins and them taking ALL pain relief off me and telling me to "come on" when I asked for gas and air) that they had the wrong lead in the machine!!!! Baby was back to back, hence the long labour and pain, but also developed probs linked to group b strep. I was given the option to continue or have ecs, but opted for ecs. Despite this, I still feel really proud of giving birth by ecs - my ds and I recovered really well, and I had no depression, despite postnatal running in the family - thank goodness for a sense of humour!! I was so relieved it was all over, to be honest, that I was cracking jokes in the OT!!!

Number 2 is definitely going to be an elective cs. I can miss out on the incompetence of the staff in delivery care and just get on with enjoying my next baby. VBAC would be an option if I could do it at home, but have looked in to it and can't afford a private midwife and the group b strep means I have to do it in hospital as I will require IV antibiotics, however the next one comes out.

What's important to me is the motherhood bit - I'm proud to be a mum - the parenting is the hard work, not the birth!!!!

"What's important to me is the motherhood bit - I'm proud to be a mum - the parenting is the hard work, not the birth!!!!"

Totally agree.

"can't afford a private midwife"

the NHS are required by law to provide you with a comptent midwife who will support you with a VBAC at home, if they do have a pro VBAC midwife suitable for you it is their responsibility to find one or to pay for an independent midwife

"the group b strep means I have to do it in hospital as I will require IV antibiotics"

Can you not go into hospital after giving birth to have antibiotics or do you need them before?

Kdinas

Why not consider having a home birth

Do all health authorities have the resources to do home births? When my friend had one the midwife was travelling between her and another woman 20 miles away (and the main road between here and there is single carriage way). Also when I was in hospital there were only 2 midwives for my ward, both delivering babies and administering pain relief for the postnatal women. It was unbelievable.

If you want a home birth they HAVE to provide this. They will give you all sorts of bull shit, but if you want it the law says you can. Do read the link I put up earlier. It's a real eye opener and a fab thing to quote when you are getting grief.

didn't get the link thing right before!!
Have a look at this

The difference between an emergency C-section (or even an uplanned C-section following many hours of labour) and a planned C-section is enormous. My first C-section was unplanned, after 12 hours of labour, and it took me a good while to get up and out of bed. The second was planned, calm (well, apart from our huge excitement at the safe arrival of our beautiful daughter), and I was up and about the next day. My babies were only 17 months apart, I am not young (37 for 2nd baby), had never had a successful vaginal delivery, and was not willing to risk damage to my babies brain just for the satisfaction of knowing I had had a "natural" birth (my first baby died at 8months of age from meningitis - I'd already watched one small brain being destroyed). It is not just the mother who matters - the most important thing to me was my baby. And future babies - imagine if I'd ruptured and had to have a hysterecomy!

During my first C-section there was no sense of emergency, but with the planned one the atmosphere in the theatre was fabulous - everyone smiling, relaxed, sharing our joy at the birth. The epidural was perfect - just enough that it didn't hurt, but I could still feel what was going on, and could move my legs again really quickly. I am still glad that I tried for a vaginal birth the first time, and might even try harder if I had that time again, but I am also very happy with my decision not to try for a VBAC.

Toady

Group B strep antibiotics are safer for the baby if they are given 4 hours before delivery and by IV - from my understanding, these have to be prescribed by a doctor, therefore I have to be in hospital for either a VBAC or elective caesarian, therefore the birth is best in a hospital.

I'd be happy to have another caesarian, really - I recovered really well from my ecs and there'd be less panic with a planned one. And I know what happens and I'd be relaxed (well, as relaxed as you can be bringing a baby in to the world whilst having major surgery!!!!!!)

I'm just glad that electives are available when mums have had a rough birth and ecs the first time round, as a lot of us would be put off having a second!!! And that would be the biggest thing to miss out on!!

Helenmelon

I am glad you are comfortable and happy with your birth plans.

After reading this thread with interest I realise it is not that I am so much anti caeserean (which is what I thought) it is more the fact that so many woman are not given all of the facts of their rights. For my first two pregnancies and births I hung on to every word that the midwifes, consultants etc said, I did not even think to question anything and just let them do what they want really. It was not until my third pregnancy that I began to question, after being told that I HAD to have a elective section.

I came home and typed VBAC in to google and never looked back really. I realised that my body had not failed me previously it just did not like labouring with loads of intervention and people.

You sound like you are well researched and that is the most important thing. It makes me so cross when I hear woman saying "my Consultant told me I had to ......" and they go along with it without question.

Anyway rant over, enjoy your pregnancy

What an idiot you aren't actually pregnant are you, (or you haven't said you are) Sorry haven't had a lot of sleep lately

CatherineW that is really heartbreaking your story and I think you have hit the nail on the head, who cares what sort of birth you have as long as the baby is born healthy.

Had a section last sept and 21 weeks pregnant now, so will only be 13 months between my babies. Am wondering wheater to opt for c section.

I think what has to be remembered is that everyone's experience is totally different albeit with similarities. I was told I was having a huge baby with dd1 and was booked in to be induced just over a week before my due date. I went through 3 pessaries (and what pain) then a gel, then the drip that promotes contractions, then waters being broken and then baby went into distress, threw her head backwards and refused to come out. I ended up having an em c/s and produced at 9lb 2oz baby. I am tall and well structured and could have given birth to her quite normally, had they let me try. Needless to say, as soon as I fell pregnant with dd2, they had me booked in for elective c/s saying baby would be much bigger. I had all sorts of tests throughout pregancy because they were adament baby was going to be much bigger than the first. Yet, 2 weeks before date I was booked into have c/section (so 3 weeks early), my waters broke and 45 minutes later contractions started lasting 40 seconds every 2 minutes. I had enough time to get to hospital, get booked in, get into bed and was told that I'd have to wait my turn for the c-section. I'm saying WHY??? Baby is coming naturally? Consultant said you are booked in to have c-section so you're going to have one! Luckily enough, the duty midwife politely pointed out to the consultant that baby's head was showing and why on earth would he want to do a c-section? I had one push with the help of a ventuse and out came dd2 weighing 8lb 10oz. So much for the HUGE baby I was going to have. I also somehow doubt she was actually early! I think hospitals are all too quick to tell you to have a c-section. But that is just my opinion and it's obviously developed from my experiences. Just do what FEELS right for you and don't let anyone force you into something you're not sure about. If you have baby in hospital - you're in the right place should anything happen that requires a c-section. The only other thing I'd say is that after dd1, I couldn't push her in her pram for a few weeks cos it was so painful. But I was home and running around - enjoying both my daughters - within 24 hours of dd2. Couldn't have done that if I'd had the second c/s.

Toady - am not pregnant, but would like another in a couple of years. Want to enjoy the first one!!

I agree that we need to push (excuse the pun) for the type of birth we want - I'm well informed and am going for an elective for future births, but that's only because that's what's best in my case. If women want VBAC or electives, they should be supported in their choice.

However a baby comes out, being a mother is so special - and the hard work is the parenting bit, not the birth!!!!!!

must confess i haven't read all the debate but for what it's worth - I went through all of this wondering whether to have an elective c/s or not, as I'd been advised to following a horrible ventouse and 3rd degree tear with my first baby. I eventually decided on a c/s and was able to enjoy my pregnancy and plan ahead. Then, like lulabye, I went into labour a week before my section date, laboured very quickly, arrived at hospital fully dilated and had a normal delivery. I don't want to assume that my experience may be the same as anyone else's, but for me personally a normal birth was a healing experience (and I mean that physically and emotionally as healing after that and a second degree tear was a hell of a lot better than the first experience). Equally well, had I been planning to labour I would have been terrified after my first experience and dreading it, so there were definite benefits of planning a c/s. I am also slightly concerned about the effects of another vaginal birth on my pelvic floor and the supposed increase risk of faecal incontinence following this, which was why I originally planned to have a c/s this time. I suppose what I am saying is that I found it helpful to decide on my bottom line (in my case, avoiding incontinence, scuse the pun) and do whatever would help me achieve that. However the fact that I ended up NOT having the section just shows what a lottery it all is...Is this helpful?? Sorry I have a three month old and a toddler hence not a very clear brain!