Hello again,
I?ll be honest, I?ve stayed away for a day or two because I did feel like my posts were being read out of context and I felt personally attacked and although I?m not usually one for resurrecting a thread which has run its course I felt I had to return one last time.
Fruitybread, I apologise for upsetting you with what I posted. I admit, my use of strong language was uncalled for. That said, I also feel that your response was inflammatory, particularly with the use of my own words seemingly flung back at me and the use of what came across as a sarcastic tone. In turn, this upset me to the point of me wanting to stay away. In hindsight I can see that I was perhaps being oversensitive. I?m not saying that either of us was right or wrong, but just trying to be clear of why I have not posted further. I hope that you can accept my apology and that we can move on from there.
Over the last few days this thread has really been on my mind, so I do feel that I should post again.
I posted to say that the comment that CS is safest for the baby was misguided. I still believe that CS being safest for baby is a very bold statement to make. Is respiratory distress syndrome also not an injury sustained at birth and in the case of elective CS, caused BY birth? As I went on to say/imply in that post, we can all pull out the statistic that suits our views best, but as I have been pulled up for only giving comment on RDS and ELCS, can I also point out that only the risk of birth injury in vaginal birth was also commented on by another poster. Forgive me for not spouting the NICE guidelines at you all, but I was under the impression that you were aware of them. I was merely pointing out in my post (poorly, by the sounds of it) that neither form of birth is the ?safest? option for mums and babies ? both have risks, and as I?ve tried to point out earlier, it?s down to the individual to choose the risk they?re willing to accept.
I don?t think that by pointing this out and using RDS and ELCS as an example (and only as an example) I?m in any way implying that either route of birth is right or wrong for mum or for baby. Both have benefits and both have risks.
In response to my discussing small studies and then, as you say, ?backtracking? again I was indicating that research is ongoing and does not give us all definite answers, hence why we use them in conjunction with guidelines and the best available research at that time. When you say that I am ?backtracking? I would like to point out that I was, in fact, creating balance in the discussion by saying that yes, there has been this piece of research, but upon deeper examination, it?s not as robust as it appears ? this is something that we are taught to do at university, it?s called academic analysis ? seeing both sides of the coin, which should be done for ALL research, including guidelines published on the back of research, such as the NICE guidelines. I was in fact, showing that I understand that not all research is robust and reliable, and pointing out, as I?ve said before, that it could be seen as a risk that women may or may not be willing to accept.
Also, I never at any point said that CS was associate with mental health issues, and I never said that that research was used ? again, I was promoting an interesting subject for discussion to highlight my point about available research and midwives critically analysing said research to further develop their practice.
Babieseverywhere ? In response to your post saying it?s irresponsible to tell mothers that their risks would be lower with a VB ? I never said or implied that the risks would be lower. I merely pointed out an example as a counter argument to the person who had said that CS is safest for baby. I in no way questioned your Elective CS, and in no way said that you should have chosen to go for VBAC again. As I?ve said in previous posts, that would not be my decision to make, and I don?t honestly think that I?ve passed any kind of judgement on anyone for the kind of birth that they are striving for, nor the reasons behind that decision. Therefore your comment has confused me, as it seems like it has been taken out of context in relation to the rest of my post.
Pestopenguin : The comment about not offering pain relief is just that. As a midwife I do not offer pain relief ? in that, I wouldn?t deem myself as someone with super powers who knows exactly what a woman is feeling and if she wants pain relief. If you noticed, I did try to explain what I meant by this by saying that I give the options for analgesia, then respect the fact that it?s a woman?s choice, and that should she require analgesia, she can ask for it as and when she needs it. I truly feel that by saying to a woman ?you?re not coping, do you want some gas and air/pethidine/epidural? I?m actually pushing my view on the way she?s coping onto her, and undervaluing her knowledge of her own body and mind ? that?s not my job.
It?s a bit like when my sister used to hit me, then say ?shut up, that didn?t hurt? when I cried ? how does she know, she wasn?t feeling what I felt? I?d like to think that I?m open and caring enough that a woman can ask me questions and can request the pain relief that she feels she needs/wants at that time.
Maples: Please see my comment above explaining my comment regarding offering analgesia. Perhaps I was wrong is saying it made me laugh, implying that I was heartless and wouldn?t give pain relief if requested. That is not the case at all. I actually don?t think it?s my place to offer women pain relief, but to facilitate discussion and allow women that choice. What made me laugh was that what I garnered from that comment was that as a midwife I?m supposed to automatically know whether a woman wants me to say she should have some pethidine or whatever or not. If a woman isn?t going to inform me of her wishes, how am I to know?
Angelico:
Please see my above response r.e. the small scale research I commented on. I have to disagree with you in that the rumour of these pieces of research lingering and being found on what you say to be ?certain kinds of midwifery/natural birth websites?. As I?ve said before, it?s these ?crap? pieces of research which allows us to recognise what is good and what is bad research. Again, I never said that I tell women of these studies ? forgive me for thinking that we were having a rational discussion, whereby different opinions and ideas were being discussed. I do think that parts of my posts have been taken out of context with relation to the rest of the paragraph/sentence that I?ve written, which I do find a little upsetting really.
Especially in relation to the fact that it seems ok for some to make sweeping statements, but it?s not ok for others to try to provide counter-balance to these.
As I?ve said before and will continue to say, I don?t sit in judgement of any decision made by a woman regarding their birth options, which is why I feel increasingly frustrated that it still appears that some are assuming that I am so pro-normal birth can I can?t see the benefits of all birth options alongside the risks.
I feel like I?m constantly repeating myself in the fact that I want to be able to work alongside women to make their experiences better, and to get rid of the barriers between us. However, listening and wanting change works both ways. We all have to be receptive to make it work.
Sorry, this is a long post (again). Thanks for taking your time to read.
Toodaloo!
xx
P.S. Quick question: Do you feel that birth outcome in relation to maternal satisfaction would be better if you were cared for within a ?caseload? team, where you would have a small team of known midwives, who would care for you holistically antenatal and postnatally, and care for you during birth, either in hospital, home or birth centre? If the current constraints of NHS pre and postnatal care were removed. If midwives had more time for one to one care in clinics etc?
There are a small amount of these teams of private midwives contracted into the NHS, but they?re a rare occurrence. Do you think that perhaps the scales might be more balanced in the relationship between mums and midwives if care were different, or do you think there are other issues too?