8yo DD hates school and wants to die

[sillysarnies]

Hi, apologies for the long post.

My 8 year old DD has always disliked school. There is definitely some separation anxiety there too. She was really happy during both lockdowns as she got lots of attention from me (her 2 sisters are older and were more self sufficient but school said that she needed an adult with her on zooms so I was with her a lot more). When she went back after the first lockdown, she was in reception and she would tell her teacher every morning that she didn't want to be there and she hated school. After the second lockdown it got gradually worse through years 1 and 2.

Last year, when she started Y3, we looked for some outside help for her. We contacted camhs and tried some therapy but it has got worse and worse. She constantly tells us that she wants to die. She says there's no point to anything. School is a prison. You waste your time at school, then you leave and work really hard. If you have children then you work hard at home too - then after all that you die so what's the point of anything!!! At the end of the summer term she wouldn't go into school without me and several times had to be restrained to stop her following me when I left. She worried about school all through the holidays. She did say that she would try really hard when the new year started and she did manage for a couple of days. But since then she's been more out than in. And if she's in the building, she won't go to class - she paces around in the corridors and stalks me when I'm in too (I'm the music teacher one day a week). She has a TA with her now but she doesn't like her.

When she's been at home, I've tried to do some school work with her but she won't do it. She screams at us all the time that we're pigs and disgusting and the worst parents in the world. She won't go to bed because tomorrow will come - bedtime takes about 2 hours until she is totally exhausted, then, totally subdued, she just takes herself to bed. She won't get up in the morning, screams the place down - which really upsets her sisters and us - and takes forever to get ready to go anywhere, which puts us under a lot of stress. It can take her an hour to get dressed. She is also really worried about eating - she can't decide what she is going to eat, eats very little, very slowly, often isn't hungry and then is suddenly starving and she panics that if this happens in school she won't be able to eat when she needs to. She has definitely lost some weight over the last few months.

I honestly don't know where to turn. She is going to start some play therapy next week. We are having family therapy at camhs (this came through her oldest sister who is autistic) but I think it is making things worse as her sisters let loose on her there about how her screaming and saying she wants to die is driving them crazy and she can't cope with that. She has been discharged from the neurodiversity team at camhs - they said that all the questionnaires we filled in showed that she isn't autistic and doesn't have adhd - I think she kind of has a few traits from a lot of things but nothing is strong enough for any kind of diagnosis. They have been gathering info on her but everything moves so slowly and she - and we - really need help now! The ed psych report came through with lots of steps the school needs to take to get her back in there but it's going to be a long road if it's even possible. She constantly says she wants to die and it gets worse if we even mention school. We are all really struggling.

Sorry for such a long post but I don't know what else we can do. Any ideas for how to support her - and the rest of us - please?

This is incredibly hard to read OP - i have not got any advice but gentle bump for someone who comes along with good advice.

I am not a fan of home schooling n general except exceptional circumstances - mabey this calls for it to be considered?

Let her stay home. If she is autistic she probably needs time to recover from the stress of school. Camhs and the council need to work with you for a longer term solution but this degree of angst tells me that mainstream school is not the answer, or at least not right now.

If the ND team have discharged her then this is more than likely anxiety.

This can be very difficult to deal with in younger children as they don't have the talking and reflecting ability for adult style therapy to be useful which is why play therapy is often used with this age group.

Are you actually getting her into school? She might be better off in a more supportive environment. She definitely has SEMH needs (social emotional and mental health). Does she have an EHCP?

There are alternative provision providers that offer a more nurturing environment than mainstream.

Girls are experts at masking but once they can no longer cope the traits become more obvious. I have several that became school refusers (the worst was ds but he presents in a more "female" autistic way. Losing weight was dd...she bummed her food at school unable to eat there and no one noticed. My son was referred twice to the asd pathway before he was diagnosed as he didn't present in the "classic way". It's really hard. Are you on fb? There's a massive group called not fine in school (website of same name too) where thousands are going through this. You are not alone xx

Can you home educate? Not easy if you have to work but she sounds deeply affected by school.

Read up on unschooling.

To be fair, she's right about school and work, but home/ having a family shouldn't appear like hard work — at least, the joy and meaning and fulfilment should be apparent.

School can be bearable if you have friends there or if you're interested in a subject, but for an intelligent child it can be mind-numbing.

Work, of course, is exactly as she describes it for many people, but if she can find something she enjoys it can be very different.

If possible (and I understand it's very hard unless you have financial means and a lot of support), I'd home educate her and let her take time off, then find ways to introduce her to interesting, fun activities and friends, give her space to find herself.

My DC, a bit older, thrived in lockdowns, but was bored and unhappy at school. It wasn't as bad as your DD's situation sounds, but it did help his confidence and lessen his anxiety when we found hobbies he enjoyed, an instrument to play and fostered his interest the one subject he liked. It seemed to give him a sense of who he was, having things/interests that were just for him, outside school.

I would pull her out of school and home educate if at all possible. Honestly it sounds like it is doing way more harm to her than good and a deeply unhappy child isn’t going to be learning much. Home education doesn’t need to look like school, research unschooling and join some Facebook groups for information, Home Education For All is a good one.

Sounds like autism. I just think it's hugely under - diagnosed in girls. It's not normal to be this anxious around school. Are you able to homeschool or are there any alternative schools in your area. The problem is that they are usually private if there are any.

We had similar with our dd. Started at about 9 years old. Got progressively worse through primary and then even worse in high school. Eventually we found an alternative private school and relocated for year 10 and 11. It was so lovely that she finally had two years of enjoying school. She then went back to her original school for sixth form and things were much better.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know that school does not suit all children, especially autistic ones.

It was a private psychiatrist who suggested we send her to an alternative school if possible. Dd has no diagnosis of autism but I strongly suspect that she is.

🤷🏼‍♀️

Just to say that our dd also started to say things like she wished she were dead. I think we underestimate how traumatic being forced into mainstream school is for sensitive/ neurodivergent children.

Could you homeschool? Relocate?

Eight is a funny age - it is the time when a lot of children first really take on board the fact that death is final.

And not every child is cut out for the artificial environment of school. It is clearly not right for your DD. I used to work for CAMHS and it always worried me when children were pathologized, when it should rightly have been the school.

There's a brilliant support group called Parenting Mental Health. Look them up on FaceBook/ their website.
They support parents of children with mental health challenges. You'll connect with other parents who understand what you are going through.

@sillysarnies is she one of the younger ones in her year group?
DD has some anxiety around school (nowhere near a severe as your DD though) and it was definitely heightened by the move to LKS2 when school became a lot more focussed on work. She is a late August baby and simply wasn’t emotionally ready for the demands even though she is academically capable so she felt like she was always behind. It’s also the age where kids start to really compare themselves and compete with each other and at that age 11 months can be a huge gap in learning capacity and emotional readiness.

Not all kids cope with traditional school - have you looked at online/home school? Kings InterHigh have a great system, where kids can log on and join live lessons or catch up later in the day. In my part of Surrey there is a huge home-school community where they organise weekly iceskating, out door activities etc. My child did it for a year and I know of several others who did (one was a child actor, one went on a round the world sailing trip with the parents). I was a SAHM/Student so it was easy for me to juggle one at home and one going to school but your circumstances may be different.

What does she like/enjoy doing?

1. Educational support at school should be needs rather than diagnosis based.
2. If you can afford it, I would suggest organising SaLT and OT assessments by professionals experienced at the SEND tribunal. Even if you don't end up at tribunal, the experience will translate into implementable strategies for school. These reports will be crucial evidence, time them to take place following the initial EHC statutory assessment.
3. Write now to the LA seeking an EHC needs assessment. It is likely to take over a year just to have the assessment completed and that is only the first stage.
4. Do not nominate to home education as that removes her rights to support at school. If you do need to take out of school for a period of time, seek a GP note or similar.
5. When engaging CAMHS, challenge your own assumptions regarding what you are writing in the questionnaires. Are you providing a true picture of how she is coping when asked to do what other children do at the same age in the same environments?
6. I would advise to not worry about her educational achievements/falling behind at this stage. Focus on protecting her mental health and retaining the space for her to develop a positive relationship with learning in the future.

My son was recently diagnosed both autistic and adhd, only last year CAMHS said he didn’t meet the threshold for assessment. Ask your gp for a right to choose referral, you have significant issues here and at the very least you need to rule it out. I bet she ends up with a diagnosis. She sounds burned out and I think you need to give her some time to recover and accept that the path way forward is not going to involve mainstream School and that’s really ok, there are so many other options. You probably know of her anyway, but Naomi Fisher does amazing webinars on this and has written some fantastic books.
good luck

What a ridiculous statement.

Does she have friends at school or outside? Have you thought about changing school or moving to a smaller or private school?

I have been through this with my DS. He is autistic. He is thriving now and happy. We had a couple of very tough years. Key for him was having chance to decompress- reduced timetable , minimal activities - and then eventually moving to a school that was more autism friendly.

I know she has been judged not autistic , but school refusal is very common with autism and with an autistic sister it seems likely to me. I would also scrap the family therapy, it sounds very unhelpful for her.

This sounds incredibly hard. Does one of you have the ability to home educate, or even just have her at home whether she gets educated or not?
This level of anxiety at school seems to be a good reason to take her out of school as soon as you can, if at all possible. How many other children do you have? Would having her home have an effect on them?

Please consider posting in the PANS PANDAS UK charity Facebook support group as this could be part of what is going on and there is often a complex and nightmare situation like this before it's picked up

Please don’t ever let her be restrained again. It is your job to protect her and make her safe.
She is now likely to be traumatised and will feel more frightened ever, and even CAHMS recommend against forcing a distressed child into school. She is showing you something so clearly about that school and you need to get her out, let her recover and absolutely prioritise her mental health now,

Is she on any medication?

I’m a Christian and think this is totally inappropriate. Sorry you had to read this op.

Glad you’re getting good advice here. Your dd sounds very distressed and I don’t think there is any point in trying to force her to adapt to mainstream schooling right now.