Breastfeeding till the age of 4 - what do you think?

[lisalisa]

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And when posters have posted against extended breastfeeding "dismissing an individuals' view without in any way acknowledging there might be some valid reasons for it". It has worked both ways.

But Nooka, there are no valid reasons for having a response of disgust to the idea of a 4 year old being breastfed. There are responses based on a cultural norm which defines the breast as a primarily sexual part of the body, leading to squeamishness about using them for their other primary purpose, and cultural norms are very deep seated and work their way into people's psyche. The reaction of those women on the bus (and I must stress that they weren't rude - they were just talking to each other quietly) was less offensive then, that it would be now, because cultural attitudes to DS have changed.

And there are still some people who have a "yuk!" reaction to three month old babies being breastfed. They aren't rude, they don't say anything, they don't make nursing mothers feel uncomfortable, but I would still argue that their personal response is not valid - it's a result of having internalised a powerful cultural norm.

I'm not suggesting they should be hung, drawn and quartered for having done so, but I don't see why they should be allowed to argue that their internalisation of this wrong cultural norm is valid. I suppose what I'm saying is that I'm not arguing against the individuals, but against the cultural norm.

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Anything said by nannyjo on this thread should be disregarded. She's quite clearly an idiot, and deserved the abuse that she got.

Actually only one person said she found it "repugnant personally". All the other mentions of the word are in posts objecting to the term.

One other person was pretty strong too - and gave no reasons at all, which wasn't too helpful in my opinion.

I can understand that you may feel that society isn't encouraging of breastfeeding (at least in public), and is probably actively discouraging of breastfeeding an older child. I can understand that you may have had unpleasant experiences, and that people may have said things here that are hurtful in the light of those experiences, but the reason I got annoyed was a tone that I saw that suggested to me that if anyone said anything that wasn't supportive they had no right to those opinions, and were probably a bit deviant themselves (the sexual/body hate thing was not just in reference to nannyjo)

Well Nooka, I believe that people don't have the right to have opinions based on misinformation and cultural norms which are warped, about other people's children.

It's one thing saying you wouldn't choose to do x yourself but what other parents do is their business; it's quite another thing to say that x should never be done by any parents (except those in countries with famine) because it's "wrong". There are certain things I think we all have the right to say are wrong: threatening to throw your child in the river because she is a witch springs to mind; beating your child black and blue is an obvious example. So I'm not saying we never have the right to make judgements about other people's parenting. But breastfeeding isn't one of them, and quite a few anti posts haven't been in the "it would be wrong for me, but OK for others" camp, they've been in the "it is wrong, full stop" camp - and not just the mad nanny's.

Sorry, referring to Nannyjo (it is nannyjo isn't it) and not just any old random mad nanny.

Nooka, lots of people posted saying it was (I'm paraphrasing - will search for proper quotes if required though!) gross, unnecessary after a certain length of time, made them feel uncomfortable, etc, etc.

If you're on the "side" of long-term breastfeeding, to be told what you're doing is gross and unnecessary is unpleasant. Especially when there is enormous piles of peer-reviewed research to back up what you are doing and there is an awful lot of misinformation being bandied about by people who've either never breastfed or not breastfed beyond the first few weeks or months.

I wouldn't set myself up to talk knowledgeably about something I haven't the first idea about or only have limited experience of (as some on this thread have done), but breastfeeding is a subject that interests me greatly (I think it's totally incredible, tbh) and I do consider that I know more than most about it. To that end, I try to help people (NannyJo included, interestingly, when she was having bfeeding problems with her four-week-old last year) who are breastfeeding.

I realise that there are people who don't agree with my views on extended breastfeeding, and I fully accept that it's not for everyone, as, I believe everyone who has supported it on this thread does. But if we don't post our feelings on it, then the ingrained "yuk" response that so many people have to it goes unchallenged and people who perhaps would have breastfed long-term don't, because they don't know it's an option, or, if they do, they are put off by other people's responses to it.

Its strange isn't it? I have 2 boys and a wee girl of just over a year...fed the 1st boy for around 5 months, but with a struggle and did not enjoy. Only lasted 2 months with DS2, but my little girl is now 13 months and I am still feeding her, mostly just in the house morn and eve. I don't really mind how long I feed her for because I don't see it as anyone elses business but my own. However, I feel under pressure to stop now and would very very rarely feed her in public because of adverse reaction (my own parents and some of my friends included. If I did stop it would probably only be for that reason or because she weans herself. I think thats sad in a way.

NG, I think it's sad too. It just goes to show how the prevailing opinion of "yuk" does bad things for supporting women who want to continue to breastfeed. You need to be pretty tough to do it, IME.

I'm not saying you don't know your stuff, or that you haven't supported other people (I have seen some very helpful suggestions on other threads).

Just that few people have said anything very offensive (acknowledge that some, well one really, did). Why is it offensive that some peope don't think it necessary? WHO says it brings benefits, not that it's necessary. Why is it offensive that it makes some people uncomfortable? I like to walk around naked, I don't see anything wrong with it, but I am aware that it makes other people uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with them feeling uncomfortable, and in general I am careful that no-one sees me naked that doesn't want to.

I don't feel uncomfortable with the idea of older children breastfeeding because I think of the breast as purely sexual, and I think it a huge assumption to say that I do, and that's the only reason I could possibly have any negative feelings towards breastfeeding.

Anyway, to be honest this is not a debate that matters vastly to me personally, whilst clearly it is a very personal thing for those people who chose to breastfeed the older child. So that's probably why we are disagreeing. I'm glad you enjoy breastfeeding, and I'm sure your children are healthy and happy. Lets just leave it that it's not something that I and many other mothers would chose to do.

nooka as far as i know the only person anyone suggested that had sexual hangups was nanny jo. don't think anyone was referring to anyone else.

Nooka I think it's too simplistic to say that you don't see the breast as something purely sexual and that would be the only reason you'd have an emotional yuk response. You can have rationally overcome some of the cultural norms without losing the emotional yuk factor.

Someone posted a photo of this 70 year old woman who has just married a 30 odd year old man recently, and my first response was "yuk. Just like that Little Britain sketch." But rationally, I know it's none of my business and there's no reason I should have that yuk response. I wouldn't try to justify it as a valid response.

Caligula, you miss my point. What I was trying to say is that for me, the reason I don't like the idea of an older child breastfeeding is nothing to do with thinking of the breast as sexual. There are other reasons that someone might feel uncomfortable, and I think it's an oversimplifaction to say that it's all down to subconscious cultural pressures.

Although some people have indeed stated a no one should ever do this line, most people have been more in the I don't like it personally field. It's just that most of them didn't remain to talk.

Oh, and appropo nothing I hate Little Britain. I think it's purile and unfunny. Now get me for that!

People say they don't like it, then say "just don't, is all". Is that a good enough reason to make other people feel bad about doing it, or say it's repugnant or gross or unnecessary?

Well yes, it is difficult to analyse why people say they don't like it when they won't answer in any detail apart from "I just don't like it". OK, you just don't like it. So why is that? And in the absence of cogently argued reasons, cultural factors can't just be discounted. (Although I'm willing to admit they may not be the major reasons; however, no one has yet explained properly why they don't dislike it, except Nannyjo, who I think can be discounted.)

Sorry meant don't like it or dislike it...

is this still going? by the time iread it my dd3 will be four!!

LOL, Misdee!

what other reasons would someone feel uncomfortable for nooka? It is a natural act of a mother feeding her child. Bit puzzling for me.

When do chimps, monkeys stop suckling, do bear with me! If they do extended breastfeeding then it would be fair to say it would be natural for humans to do it too. If anyone is a vet or animal psycologise perhaps this would answer the question as whether it is necessary for humans to do extended BF as well. Funny question I know but I thought it may add a bit of light relief to a very heavy thread.

Fsmail, the World Health Organisation say it's A Good Thing, so that's good enough for me.

Monkeys throw their own shit at each other when they get cross and sleep in trees, so I think I'll leave the comparisons for now

Well precisely. No-one's actually said why they don't like it. Except for puzzling reasons like "it's not necessary" (neither is wine or chocolate) or "it's about a mother's needs" (as if a mother's needs are something very bad).

yes i did. i will send you my mobile number over later when i can remember it or get it off my currently dead phone.

pmsl at the monkey thing. God the thought of my kids throwing kack at each other!

Monkeys pick fleas off each other and eat them; perhaps we should all start eating our kids' headlice, if we're supposed to look to the monkeys for how we bring our kids up.

Then again, perhaps not