What do you wish a bf supporter in hospital had told you/done?

[FourArms]

I'm coming towards the end of my bf peer supporter course, and soon I'll be volunteering on the postnatal wards at our local hospital.

So... if a bf supporter had been available in your hospital, what would you have liked them to have done/told you/showed you?

I was v.lucky with DS1 and DS2. Although there were slight issues with both (c/s with DS1 and a spell in NICU for DS2) they were both v.easy to bf and it came very naturally to us all from feed one. We did have problems once we were home, so I have a lot of experience with these, but not much for problems in the early days.

Any thoughts will be gratefully received!

Having had a c section both times - second time for twins. Getting the babies to me in hospital to feed was really awful. I buzzed for nurses many times and it took them ages to come. I only wanted some help to make sure I didn't drop one of them, I was so weak. I felt such a nuisance asking for help. I was made to feel a nuisance.

When the chance came to go home, I lied my way through the checks and was thrilled to get out of the ward.

In the end I fed my eldest for many many months, incuding when back at work. fed the twins for six months but to be honest, that was because I had done it before. The hospital was of limited help.

does anyone think that its not ok for someone to just grab hold of your boob and shove it in your babies mouth! i really really hated that!

I didnt know that babies feed so much newborn and that would have been useful to know instead of me thinking it would be every 2 hours

that you cant overfeed a bf baby

I got told "it shouldn;t hurt" so many times but then not much else.

I had to seek out BF support and didnt get latch sorted until 8 weeks It was only through sheer determination that i got through it. However I had given myself no other option BF was it.

Sorry rambling, what i mean is that the support afterwards should be readily available.

think there needs to be more people like yourself

before i had dd, i hired a breastfeeding dvd by claire byam-cook (breastfeeding without tears) i watched it about 3 times in a row, and it was the best thing i did.

it took 15 hours after birth for dd to latch on for the first time, and after 12 hours, a nurse insisted on cup-feeding her formula (which she threw up). I totally ignored all the mw's and nurses who gave me useless bf advice/ non-advice, and tried to be calm about the whole thing. the way i saw it, my baby wasnt going to starve in 1 day, and i had plenty of time to get bf established.

i firmly believe that knowledge is power. if i hadnt watched that very helpful dvd, i wouldnt have had a clue what to do, and how bf worked. i probably would have given up in the first week.

Hi
I haven't read this whole thread, just posting from the top as it were..

I had an atrocious midwife on the post-delivery ward who was rude, abrupt and almost vicious in her manhandling of me. She squeezed my boob into my poor screaming infant's mouth again and again while he wailed and I cried my eyes out - barking, several times: 'No, you're doing it WRONG! Why won't you LISTEN??' (she also did this with the other three women on the ward...we were all poor learners, clearly ). It was one of the worst, loneliest experiences of my life.

A few weeks later, I had the opposite experience with a lactation consultant who was warm and humorous and also respectful in her manhandling of me. I realised later that she was doing the same 'techniques' as the first midwife, but she didn't just lunge at me without warning and she was kind. Kindness is everything. New mums are raw - in my case, quite literally after a rotational forceps delivery!

In Baby Massage, we are asked to request permission of our babies before invading their space. The same is true for new mums.. just because you ask for help with a latch does not mean you know what the 'help' is going to be so if you ARE going to need to manhandle a woman's boobs, explain what you are doing and why and check that you are not hurting. The first midwife squeezed my nipples as if they were stress cushions! The pain was unreal!

My tuppence worth. Good luck!

I really struggled to establish bf with DS and found the hospital midwives very unhelpful as there was no consistency in their approach / advice.

DS didn't seem very keen to latch on for the 1st 24 hours and some MWs were from the grab your breast and shove it in his mouth school of thought whilst others were of the 'he's getting dehydrated / jaundiced, give him some formula' persuasion.

They were very busy on the ward and with the exception of one of the night staff it felt like they were too busy to commit the time to supporting bf.

What I think would have been really helpful was to have someone with knowledge and experience who had time to sit with me when DS was awake and look at my latch / technique.

Also to have a plan to follow for the 1st few days and opportunity to ask for more help as and when I needed it.

Am still happily bf 21 months later but it was really stressful in the early days and I feel quite pissed off that the breast is best message is rammed down your throat even if they are preaching to the converted but the practical help and support is so lacking

I wish there were more peer supporters like yourself available on post natal wards, I'm sure you'll be a huge help to new bf mothers.

As an aside,

I am on due DC5 in 4ish weeks.

I have bf all my birth children and my youngest is only two.

I saw my mw on Thurs who is lovely.

She asked me if I had watched the bf DVD she gave me (think its compulsory as part of the HIP grant).

When I said no didnt really feel I needed to she called me 'a naughty girl'. Dont get me wrong, I dont know it all about bf but I have got a lot of experience and didnt feel I wanted to watch a dvd about it.

I am also 42 so far from being a girl!

What is it about pregancy that makes people treat you like a child?

kat2907 - have just read that article. I have never heard of that condition before, but certainly am now, and will refer the other trainees to your link. Thankyou.

Good idea about recommending MN to new mums. Will have to ensure I get a supply of those A5 posters, and perhaps get one put up in the dining room?

mummytowillow sorry about your experience. I have been very lucky with bfing, but I have two close friends who weren't so lucky, and knowing what they went through is one of the reasons I'm so keen to help other people.

ExistentialistCat thanks for your post. I am v.pro bfing, and a bit sad for the babies of people who chose not to bf without even seeing what it's like. However, in a case like yours, obviously your health and wellbeing has to come first, and I firmly believe that happy mums make happy babies. Of my two close friends who struggled with bfing, one went on to feed a second child relatively easily, and I think this helped her. The other only has one child, so the emotions about it are much more raw. I hope their experiences will ground me and stop me becoming too much of a bf facist!

MillyMollyMoo from what I've learned on this course, a bottle of formula in the first few days can damage the bf relationship. Not to say that if it is medically indicated that you shouldn't give one, of course you should, but if a baby is just a bit unsettled, I'd persist with trying to settle the baby at the breast. The early days are v.important for establishing bfing, and just one ff can affect it.

Rebecca41 spot on - night feeding v.important to promote milk production. So helpful nannas and dads giving a FF so mum can sleep can really damage BM production.

Thanks to everyone who's posted. I'm going to print this thread for our course to read, and I'm sure I will revisit it again in a few months.

On the emotional front - I felt so much better when someone pointed out to me that my baby could smell the milk on me so he often cried or was more unsettled when I held him than when his dad or grandparents did. I had some very shakey days early on when I thought I must be a terrible mother because I couldn't settle him as well as everyone else seemed to be able to!

Thingiebob that sounds awful. I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience. Hopefully as a peer supporter I will have time to just support bfing mums and won't be torn by other problems like MWs are.

littlesez We've been told not to touch anyones breasts. I'm going to buy a tennis ball shaped breast stress ball (Ann Summers to help demonstrate how to hold your breast, where to place fingers for hand expressing etc.

curlimum - not heard of that before, will try and get hold of a copy to watch.

Interesting comment about just one ff affecting breast feeding: when I had my son (emergency CS - full GA) I found it very difficult to bf - despite having every wish to do so. We were then told that DS had serious medical problems; I later read that the combination of the drugs for the GA and the shock of the medical issues can affect bf - my DS didn't put on any weight for a few days and we were not 'allowed' to go home - the hospital was so militant about only bfeeding (hideous memories of sessions with breast pumps) that in the end my DH had to practically steal some formula - DS then put on weight and we went home where I was able to bf quite happily for eight months.

Sorry to ramble, but I feel the point about drugs in the GA may have some relevance.

Irons & Amberc
I too have very flat nipples (extra flat when my big boobs are trying to produce milk). Just like you, I had nothing for my 3 DCs to latch on to.
With my first DS I failed completely - the only support was the very quick visits by the MW which entailed squeezing the nipple and shoving it into baby's mouth.
With my second DS I was determined I would succeed, but again didn't, despite making frequent visits to the hospitals own BF clinic. I also spent a ridiculous amount of time using a hospital expressing machine which I was told would change my nipple shape. It didn't and my memories of the whole experience are of misery, failure and exhaustion.
When my 3rd DS was due I was so disillusioned with the hospital where the other 2 were born with it's posters boasting about how great they were at supporting BF that I decided to give birth in a private hospital. This time I researched as much as I could about the problem of flat nipples, and turned up with 2 kinds of nipple shields (a product which is generally frowned upon by MWs). Here I had the time and support I needed from the MWs (surely we shouldn't have to go to a private hospital to get this). After a day or two of trying with their support to BF without nipple shields I was still struggling. I discussed this with the MW on duty and she helped me to try first of all with a commonly available very thin silicon nipple shield (which collapsed and did not work), and then with the other thick rubber one. This worked instantly! BF was a breeze from that moment on.
I want to cry with frustration as I write this because I cannot believe that I had missed out on BF my other 2 DCs for the sake of a rubber nipple shield.
So to a BF supporter I would say please watch out for this problem, be really well informed about the solutions and have some of these nipple shields with you for immediate use when necessary.
For anyone reading this with the same problem the nipple shield which worked was made by Chicco and I had to get it by mail order. Several are needed as they should be sterilised and after a while the rubber starts to deteriorate.
I will be thrilled to bits if this information helps another mother somewhere avoid what I went through.

1. Baby wont feed if boiling hot in hospital. Hospital didn't want me to leave till baby was feeding. Catch 22. Strip baby naked to feed!

1. I found out loads about bfing in advance but one of the last things I found out, which no one had told me and it came as a shock, breast feeding can be really enjoyable! REALLY enjoyable! Not for everyone of course, but I loved it.

Sorry, haven't had time to read all of the discussion, but have dipped in and out. Has anyone mentioned internal thrush? Something to look out for...

I'd rather give birth than experience that sort of pain again. Believe it was as a result of antibiotics given during birth, but resulted in incredible amounts of pain both during and between feeds, right from the start. Around the nipple and deep deep within the breast. I didn't realise breastfeeding wasn't supposed to hurt so much so didn't get any help until 14 weeks, when my son stopped putting on weight (probably because I could hardly bear to feed him - lots of blood, blisters and continual pain). Persisted, but only because I was absolutely determined to.

Crap advice from hv who demanded that I put ds on formula immediately and she would weigh him again in 2 days (helpful), but I found fabulous support from the Breastfeeding Network, both in person (wonderful wonderful breastfeeding co-ordinator for whom nothing was too much trouble) and a GP who finally 'got it' when I went in armed with BF Network info and the name of the medication I needed.

Went on to bf my son until 20 months, and am thoroughly enjoying painfree feeding my 4 month old daughter. Every time she latches on, I think "this is how it should have been". I've been surprised how little is known about it - could save many a breastfeeding relationship, I'm sure.

Wonderful thing you are doing OP. So good of you to volunteer your time to help with this as it means so much to have someone work through this with you. I had some lovely enouraging midwives with DS1 and wish everyone could have the same experience. ...

I BF both of my children. Both were very unsettled in hospital on the second night. For the first I asked for formula as nothing was settling them and I was made to feel guilty for asking. My baby greedily took the whole bottle then went on to bring it back up but then did sleep. No-one told me how much should be given. Second time round again I ended up asking for formula but again was made to feel guilty for asking and this time I persisted without giving it and my baby did eventually fall asleep. On both occasions I believe I wasn't yet providing the milk my baby needed by that point. 2nd time round I think you're more relaxed so more willing to keep going no matter how tired you are. I probably got 1 hr sleep if that all night. First time round I was so tired and not sure of what else I could do formula seemed the last resort.

I also had extremely sore nipples to the point I winced when they latched on for both children after a few days of BF. But on both occasions it lasted a few days and after using the 'Avent' nipple cream regularly it got better. I put this pain down to my nipples not being used to being tugged constantly during the day as was feeding on demand. I guess some women may give up BF at this point if they didn't realise it got better after a few days.

My first child fed every 2 hours day and night and not having BF before I didn't know the feeling of when milk was being supplied or when they were just suckling. When I started weaning and also stopped BF I realised that at night time I'd mainly been used as a human dummy. I was determined not to do the same 2nd time round. Luckily 2nd time round I recognised the sensation of suckling versus feeding, so quickly stopped when just suckling. My first child always fell asleep feeding, my second fell asleep on their own as was awake when put down as not given chance to suckle. My first was a 5 minute wonder feeding but every 2 hours on demand day and night, not always convenient. 2nd time round I had a good sleeper at night (up to 6 hrs between feeds) but demanded feeding every 2 hrs during the day so I started distraction technique to drag out time inbetween feeds during day and managed to extend to 3 hrs sometimes 4. Much more reasonable to build into every day life. It would have been useful to have been given these tips first time round.

I was told I wasn't BF properly first time round but I carried on doing it my way and was successful with both children. I think as long as you and baby are comfortable and they're getting the milk then that way is fine.

I wish I'd known the science behind breast feeding. I think if I'd known how it worked, it would have helped me understand what to do when I came up against problems. Specifically...

• how milk is produced
• how to produce more milk
• how long it takes to 'refill' each breast
• what to do if your milk doesn't come in quickly
• how to syringe colostrum
• how to (and why) express

Oooh yes, syringing colustrum. I was doing this at hospital and when we came home too for the first few days. Latching just wasn't happening but I was pretty ok about it as I knew that we were still able to get the good stuff into her - I was confident that we'd get the hang of it eventually and thankfully, we did.

Not read all the responses, so I'm sure this has already been said...

• Not having DD shoved on my breast when I needed help latching her on. I needed help to do it myself but luckily I managed to wangle being transferred back to the midwife-led unit and they were fab and showed me how to sit etc to aid latching. At hospital the MWs latched DD on with me lying down but that wasn't the best position for me to do it on my own as I couldn't hold her at the right angle.
• That it can be really difficult because it's essentially learning a new skill for mum and baby. Made me feel much better even when we were struggling. I found internet BFing videos really useful to watch as some were filmed over the mum's shoulder so I could see what I should see.
• Tell first time mums how often you need to feed a BF baby. My midwife said every 3-6 hours and because DD slept all the time anyway, I only woke her after 6 hours No wonder she lost 10% of her body weight.
• During the early days (I think I read it on here) but to just wear a t-shirt on top and stick breastpads to the inside to stop leaks. Was much more comfy that trying to put very sore nipples in a bra.
• Maybe about clothing for BFing, I bought expensive tops but actually find it easier to wear a vest top I can pull down, nursing bra and a jumper or similar I can pull up.

just agreein with the Ga and C section posters before and how it makes you v disorientated and delaying milk coming in.
MW pulling on your tits as though they were trying to take them off and shouting at you for doing it wrong does not help. I struggled to Bf for two days until my DH noticed that DD breathing was erratic - not picked up by MW who I experienced to be horrible in the whole. She ended up in an incubator which then left me with the joy of expressing which I still cannot do we managed to syringe some colostrum off for the feeds via tube which made me feel better but it was a difficult time.
I would note that the pain of painful let down is different to that of wrong latching on - the only way I can describe painful let down when the baby is on is like the tubes are hurting? its like the milk coming out is burning the tubes? and wrong latch on the pain comes from the nipple and area? sorry if thats crap way to describe it.
We also cup fed and DD was fed by tube until we got her out the incubator.

...that they pretty much feed all the time in the early days while they are getting their/your supply up and it can be exhausting. Then you get to a certain point where your supply and their demands sort of meet up and you get into a bit of a routine. Oh, and the timescale for giving a bottle. Somebody told me I'd missed a window for giving a bottle )of expressed milk) but I nobody told me about the window. DD never took a bottle and I never had a break.
DD liked to sleep on the breast too but luckily was taught to stroke her below the ear to wake up her and it worked a treat. Its a fantastic thing you are doing, enjoy and good luck!

purple - yeh agree re clothing. my best bf investments were stretchy strappy vests from primark. i have them in many colours so they will go under every outfit possible and i can feed wherever discreetly. those long cardigans with waterfall hemlines are good too. you can wrap them around the babywhile you feed all ladylike.

cerealqueen what is this about stroking below te ear. DD2 feeds all night (8mo) am pretty desperate for some sort of resolution, trying to sleep train, but currently holding an exhausted baby, who woke at 4am and not gone back to sleep. Know not the thread for this but any other ideas are welcome,,,,,

I had a similar experience to Hunibee - twins and c-section. I don't know why highly trained nurses don't seem to get that the combination makes it quite hard to feed. It's horrible sitting there, knowing your babies aren't latched on right but not able to resettle either of them without risking the other falling off the bed! I'd already fed two singletons and knew it would be easy if I could just get home, as indeed it was, but a first-time mum would probably have been totally put off.

A bit of extra help for c-section twin mums, if you get the time, would be great I think.