Am I the only mother on the planet who CHOSE bottle-feeding?

[CottageChicken]

I read extensively, did lots of soul-searching, and decided breastfeeding just wasn't something that was the right path for me and DC. Consulted DP who wanted a very active role in the feeding and supported 100%, we did 50/50 on all feeds from Day 1. Most people have been great about it, but of course there are the Breastfeeding Nazis and just general disapproval stares.

Did anyone else actively choose not to breastfeed? I don't regret my choice at all but it would be nice to hear from others.

By the way - mine are very happy, rarely ill, well-adjusted babies before you ask how many ear infections they've had, as more than 1 random person on the street has done .

Because so many women rely on midwives, H/Vs for advice re: b/fing whereas a few generations ago, women would ask their own mothers/aunts/sisters.

But when DD and DS and I go out, I bring a bottle of formula for DS. Earlier on in the thread, you stated that, 'if you see a child being bottle fed, you do feel sorry for that child...'

All I am saying is that when one sees a child being bottle fed, there may be lots of reasons why, and that it may not be a straight forward situation.

RockinSockBunnies, do you think the NHS will fund more support because you judge the women who've been let down by their service?

Do you do anything other than judge them?

How about helping them?

Although you'd need an attitude shift to be a peer supporter - it seems you're just being smug for the sake of it, without thought for those you're judging. As Tiktok says, it makes the job of those who support women to breastfeed incredibly difficult when there are opinions like yours around, because for every hundred supportive, non-judgemental posts, it only takes one like yours to undo all that and take it right back to the beginning again.

And if you can't see that that's really not very smart, maybe we could all pity you for a bit - didn't you strive to be the best person you could be? Didn't you try hard enough? Aww.

I chose to bottle feed too.

Hunker - how have women been 'let down' by the NHS where they chose to bottle-feed before they even had the baby?

I also said I feel incredibly sorry for those women who have tried everything to be able to breastfeed and haven't had the support in place to be able to do so.

At the same time, I'm a little surprised that people so readily expect the NHS to provide much help anyway. I'm also surprised at how little research is undertaken by some women who want to breastfeed prior to giving birth, especially considering the dire rates of breastfeeding in this country and the fact that access to support can be patchy once the baby's born.

You feel incredibly sorry for them, yet you - what? Help in any way? Hardly.

Women often don't know much about what breastfeeding support's like before they have their first baby - and for other women, knowing what it can be like (ie anything but useful), it is the sole reason for choosing to bottlefeed whilst pregnant. Which is pretty rubbish, no?

Well, technically, help-wise, I was a peer supporter for the best part of 18 months whilst DD was small. I attended a breastfeeding support group, chatted to other mothers, learned more about the biology of breastfeeding etc. All of which was fine and dandy, because the people who came to the group wanted to breastfeed, so I gave them as much help and encouragement as I could. Also, we had a brilliant bf counsellor at the group who was amazing at giving help and I guess most people who came to group persevered with breastfeeding. I don't think I knew anyone that bottlefed amongst the mothers that had babies the same age as my DD.

I fully agree that there needs to be better breastfeeding support in the UK.

Oh RockinSockBunnies, REALLY, give it a go!! You say you feel incredibly sorry for those women who have tried everything to be able to breastfeed & haven't had support. But then you've also told us (repeatedly) that you glare disapprovingly at women who bottlefeed. So how on earth do you know the women you glare at are not exactly those you feel incredibly sorry for?!
Anyway, I'm really tired trying to dismantle your arguments. They're not really arguments to be honest. They're a rant. And the idea that all this is a 'political' issue, 'not going along with the liberalism of our society' or whatever is laughable. When people make that kind of argument- expressing opinions openly & not being 'everything goes' all the time (a valid argument)- they are NOT referring to disapproving glares towards bottlefeeding mothers. They're referring to talking openly & having debates even about difficult, thorny subjects.

And one last point (not because I'm interested in addressing it to you, but just because I think it's an interesting issue). The idea that mothers should be 'selfless' & that 'their life should revolve around their children' is an old one. But you know what. People have children not to be selfless, but because they want to have children. And because they want this, and having children will enhance their quality of life, they are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices in order to bring them up well. People don't have children out of some vague sense of altruism. They also make various choices regarding their children (we all do) based on their desires, beliefs, circumstances, support system etc. Who are YOU to say which is the right set of choices for each individual family?! And who are you to say, also, that mothers (it's always mothers, isn't it) should be selfless in order to bring their children up well? I actually believe the opposite. It's 'selfless' mothers (or even more dangerously, those who believe themselves to be selfless) who do the most damage to their children. The 'martyr mother' is quite a heavy burden for any child to bear.

therein lies the crunch sockbunnies.....You "guess those that came to the group persevered in BFing".

You don't know for sure that some of them may have struggled and given up, so the very women you professed to help you then would be prepared to judge? I think you are just trying to dig yourself out of the hole you are in now.

IMO if you don't know the background, then wind your neck in.

Rockinsockbunnies

"you really never know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them"

i am amazed that you were a peer supporter, some of the things you have said reminds me of the bfc who upset me so much I ended up walking out of the clinic in tears deciding finally to stop trying to b'feed altogether and move onto f'feeding.

I think it is really important to try and have women who tried to b'feed on board in trying to improve b'feeding rates (I hopefully will be able to help and encourage my daughters even if I didn't manage to do it myself), but attitudes like yours do nothing but alienate women who have tried their hardest to do the best thing for their children.

Oh I forgot to say, please, please don't pity me or my children.

well i think RockinSockBunnies is perfectly entitled to her opinion, as we all are.

So it annoys her if women don't BF. Is that really so awful? She thinks it is the best thing for a mother to do, and so do the vast majority of health professionals. Why shouldn't she then privately judge those who choose otherwise? We all privately judge people for plenty of reasons, from what they eat, to how much they drink, to what they wear, how they treat their family and friends, etc., etc.

I think RSB is also spot on that FF is typically a lifestyle choice. IMO, that doesn't inherently make it wrong, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging it.

I think she also has a good point about this ideal of a liberalised society, where it's politically incorrect to judge anyone. Though plenty of stifling ones have rightfully been broken down, social mores continue to be crucial to a functioning society. I think RSB's view does apply to breastfeeding. There are plenty of places where breastfeeding is considered declasse, and there is strong peer pressure not to do it. While in other places, like middle class London, it is de rigeur. We are very much influenced by those around us, and what is considered to be the right thing to do in that particular place and time.

Wow. I'm still reeling from reading that article!

"for some women their breasts are an important part of their sexuality and they don?t want them used to provide milk" I find that absurd.

"Breastfeeding was agony ? far more painful than the scar from my caesarean. Women should have the right to choose not to do it" Eh? Women do have the right to choose not to do it. That's why we have formula. No one would ever force a mother in agongy to continue breastfeeding. Just because breastfeeding is encouraged doesn't mean women don't have a choice.

"My breasts are for my husband...He wouldn?t like me feeding the babies and I don?t want to end up with a chest like a cow". I don't even know what to say to that.

i am getting so many mixed messages off of people's response to that article. It's ok not to BF, as long as it's because of pain, not sexuality?

It's more the fact of 'my husband wouldn't like it'. I think that's pathetic. I can't bear it when men complain that they're taking a back seat because of the baby. A baby is a baby for a very short time. If a man can't go without regular sex or can't bear to see his wife feeding his child, I think it's very sad.

That's jmo of course.

Reading my post I can see it looks like I'm saying it's ok to bottle feed if you're in pain but that's all. That's not what I meant. I actually meant to highlight the 'women should be able to choose thing' more, because, women can choose. Women don't have to give a reason. We have choice. It doesn't matter if it's not everyone's choice, or if some people don't approve of that choice. We have a choice.

Bravo, Maria2007! Excellent post.

Yes, it's always the mothers. Fathers are just sperm donors and bank accounts.

but goodnightmoon, she doesn't just judge people who choose to f'feed, but also,

"...people may (who) say they 'tried' to breastfeed and failed. Again, I sometimes wonder how hard they tried. How much research of the topic they did whilst pregnant? How many breastfeeding counsellors they saw? Whether they tried to pump and feed, rather than move straight onto formula?"

I'm in agreement with some of the points raised by Standanddeliver and Maria2007 especially.

I don't think it is patronising or awful to PRIVATELY feel sorry for babies that have not received any breastmilk. I do, a little. This does not mean I judge a mother who bottlefeeds. It does not mean that the decision to bottlefeed was the wrong one - as Maria2007 points out, it is not ALWAYS of benefit to be totally selfless as a mother as there is sometimes a cost. And as others have said, it's none of my business anyway. But I also agree with whoever said that we do judge, rightly or wrongly, in many areas of life. It is important to realise that you are only seeing a snapshot of someone else's life though, and you cannot truly judge a decision unless you are in that person's shoes.

I have no problem with anyone making an informed decision to bottlefeed, but I wish that all decisions were informed and not based on myths, as unfortunately appears to be so common. If I had not been a lurker on mumsnet I would not have known where to look for true information, and may well have believed advice given by people such as the nameless one, as "she's an expert, isn't she"! It's not easy for non-sciency people to sort through advice and information and find the reliable sources and the bobbins ones. So Rockinsocksbunnies - I think saying people should do more research is a bit off. Most people simply don't know where to look, it's very confusing and there is so much different advice.

Stop talking guff!@Rockinsocksbunnies.

'I'm also surprised at how little research is undertaken by some women who want to breastfeed prior to giving birth...'

I come from a family of breastfeeding women, none of whom at a moment's problem with bf-ing. I assumed, wrongly or rightly, that I'd be the same. I was also the first of my friends to have children. I didn't know any other breastfeeding mums. I had no idea - not a scooby - that you could have such dire problems as I ended up having (three bouts of mastitis, abcess on breast. hospitalised and put on antibiotic AV etc..)

Maria2007 is talking huge amounts of sense, btw. Please do listen to her.

had a moment's problem...excuse typos

Hahah, glaring at a bottlefeeding mother.

Too sad for words, really it is.

coochicoo, I thought that article sounded more Sun than Times.

And isn't it telling that the OP has peed off! She either listened to what she was told or is sitting back grinning at the stink she has created.

Well Done OP

It's timely, I think, to make a distinction between

) 'views' or 'opinions', which people can discuss and debate, preferably in a reasoned way, with facts to back them up

and

ii) ridiculous, prejudiced, judgemental twittering rants, presented as 'views' and 'opinions'

I am horrified that rockinsockbunnies was allowed to open her mouth anywhere near breastfeeding women in need of support...I hope the breastfeeding support group she attended had some sort of quality control, to ensure that as few mothers as possible felt judged because they weren't trying hard enough, or were on the receiving end of one of rockinsockbunnies' disapproving stares (WTF???).

My main worry is for this community - the community we have on mumsnet. Rockinsockbunnies' vacuous 'look at me, I'm judgemental, me!' daftness will be remembered by people who want to depict breastfeeding supporters (like me) as disapproving, and to say that mumsnet has posters who judge ff mothers.

Even though you're one person only, plus some other muppet (yes, you, goodnightmoon) who thinks you have a right to express your 'views' , the impact of your posts is disproportionate.

Do go and play somewhere else.

I am so shocked at that article:
"Others are concerned that suppressing lactation will be detrimental to the health of babies, who are believed to receive protective antibodies and a range of other nutrients from their mother?s milk. "
believed
believed
puts it on a par with UFOs, ley lines and reading auras
wukfits!

This is all very interesting. I must admit that I do feel sad when I see a baby being bottle fed, I just can't help it - but I would never say anything and I hope my face would not reveal my thoughts. Why do I feel sad? Because I know that the woman hasn't been able to BF (so I feel sad for her, that she might be sad) or that she hasn't really wanted to bf, in which case I wonder why. I found bf so, so hard to start with and had very little support (apart from MN). It would have been the easiest thing to give up, I was just very stubborn. I found the mental adjustment to BF and demand feeding tough but after a while I loved the special cuddle time DD and I had together.

I do think that this thread is failing to acknowldge that for whatever reason the majority of women in this country don't bf for very long. We know that some women can't / don't have adequate support from HCPs / don't have support from family. But it seems to be the huge unsaid thing that lots of women give up because bf can be bloody hard work and very painful and it simply doesn't fit easily into their lifestyle!

There was a post on here a few weeks ago where someone said they had spoken to HV who had no BFers. Why? Presumably that was the culture of the area, had the women 'choosen' not to BF or did they just FF because that is the norm in their area?