I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

[chillybangbang]

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

Well, I boycott Nestle, if that's any good. And am very happy that our local hospital is 100% committed to promoting breastfeeding. And am very grateful to the breastfeeding counsellor. And was very committed to breastfeeding myself (sometimes more than was good for either my health or dcs'). But am afraid I was not prepared to give any of my friends a hard time over their decision to bottle feed.

Boycotting Nestle is good. That's quite militant!

I also boycott Nestle. Much easier now I have found a substitute for strawberry nesquick.... (strawberry ovaltine - tastes nice but doesn't dissolve as well).

Re: giving your friends a hard time.... I am militant but I have never been unsupportive or judgemental of my non-breastfeeding friends (I have lots of non-bf friends who I think are great mums). In fact I think that being judgmental and unkind is a sign that someone lacks a proper understanding of the context in which women are making choices about how to feed their babies, therefore not a proper militant. A proper militant is primarily concerned with the social forces that shape people's perceptions and experiences of feeding, not in making personal judgements about individuals.

I think, that like another highly contentious issue, it is a woman's right to choose.
I don't judge them on those choices.
I do wish there were more public support for bf. Education seems to be improving, but it won't make a difference until there is a general acceptance that a section of society needs to get their norks out on a regular basis.
I am incredibly lucky with the support available in my PCT- I realise others are not so lucky.

"I think, that like another highly contentious issue, it is a woman's right to choose."

Interesting parallel. Imagine if organisations like 'Life' had as high a public profile as the formula companies and their advertising budgets........ imagine how it would impact on public perceptions of that issue........

I am, yes....but I see the lack of bf in the UK as an anthropological/sociological thing rather than political.

Until we have a grown-up generation of mothers of which the majority were bf themselves- and therefore it is seen as a norm, as the way-one-feeds-a-baby rather than as a lifestyle choice, because that is what it is currently, then nothing is going to change.

It is changing, slowly, thanks to bf promotion/information/support. Of which, in the UK, there is a huge amount.

None of which we have here in the south of Italy, and yet, every woman breastfeeds (except those with medical constraints) Why? Because they were breastfed, their mothers were breastfed, their grandmothers were breastfed.

I'll be off now, as I am sooooo not going to get into another bf/ff debate......

chillybangbang

I agree with your post and especially this part:

"I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed."

I well remember the experience of visiting the maternity suit at the local hospital before DS1 was born and seeing evenly spaced 'Breast is Best' posters stuck all the way down both walls of the corridor. It did seem like indoctrination and we could not see why it had to be that way. We tried to have an open discussion about the pros and cons of breast and bottle with the midwives but no one would talk to us about bottle feeding. After a lot of questioning, one did admit to us she was not allowed to talk about bottle feeding - only breast feeding. This was about 9 years ago so maybe things have changed.

Before DS1 my wife had made up her own mind that breast feeding was the way to go and we never talked much about bottle feeding. However, it turned out DS1 was so hungry that my wife could not keep up with him and physically did not produce enough milk to satisfy him. She had to give him a bottle in the end and felt terrible guilt. It was only when she spoke to both my mother and her own mother who both told her that bottle feeding was really the only option with a very hungry baby that she started to feel better about her decision.

Things may be different now but back then there was a real sense of women being pushed around, bullied and 'told' to breast feed in the post natal wards. The message was that bottle feeding was bad but no one would or could tell you why.

Women should have the choice and a real honest choice with good solid advice and support in both breast and bottle feeding. I also think that there are barriers to breast feeding even today that need to be removed - despite what Govt has said about how it supports it. I still think most employers, restaurants, shops, and public space providers find 'breast feeding mothers' an inconvenience they would rather do without.

I know its odd for a bloke to write about this but it is something I feel very strongly indeed 'militant' about. I guess I do not have the emotional pressure that women have but I certainly have the experience of my own wife often sat sobbing and distressed as she desperately tried to feed DS1 and him crying for lack of food and dehydration. Her experience with DS2 was easier and she breast fed him for longer but had to go to bottle again as he grew and outpaced her ability to produce milk enough to satisfy him.

I guess to summarise - I am 'militant pro choice' on this issue. I defend the right of any woman to make that choice for herself and her baby without either feeling guilt over choosing to bottle feed or feeling resented by society for causing inconvenience' by breast feeding.

I'm throwing my lot in with you Chilly.

Message withdrawn

I didn't choose to bottlefeed ds1, I was pushed into it. I'm still working on getting bf really established with ds2, and was told by the hospital bf counsellor that she's never met anyone more determined to do so, this time round.

There was an excellent article on the BBC website earlier this week re new research findings on the number of women who "fail" to bf because of early problems with latching, dehydration and how hospitals deal with it, or fail to. Very much the issues which have now happened to me with both babies. I'm looking for the link to save it as I read originally on another device, not my home PC.

Why did posters on the walls of the maternity unit seem to you like indoctrination, ABetaDad?

Given you accept the fact that breastfeeding should be accepted in places where it is not, and currently visible in places where it is not, why would posters (in a maternity ward, FFS)encouraging breastfeeding be seen as 'indoctrination'?

Midwives are of course permitted to talk about formula feeding if asked - it seems odd to me that some of them have the idea that they are not allowed to. However, when people ask for 'full information' about ff antenatally, they don't usually mean what they say....unless they really do mean 'tell us about the known risks to my health and my baby's health if I use formula'.

Would you be ok about that?

Bucharest, I am in sympathy with your perspective on this and agree that we need cultural change. I am interested in what you say about southern Italy. Am imagining bf nirvana, with glossy haired, glamorous Italian mothers unselfconsciously feeding rosy cheeked bambinos in sunny cafes with full public approval and support. (cultural stereotypes in full-force as you can see - you'll have to excuse me. It's a gray, drizzly February morning in the big smoke, and I'd love to be somewhere else...)

I see this as a political issue in that I feel artificial feeding has become entrenched in the UK through a mixture of destructive public health policy (the move to 100% hospital birth, separating mothers and babies in hospitals and the involvement of health care professionals in the promotion and distribution of baby milk) and a 'laissez faire' government stance towards the marketing of breastmilk substitutes. And there are plenty of things the government could do (and isn't doing) that would effect change. Look at what's happened in Norway. They went from being a strongly a/f culture to one where most babies are primarily bf, in the space of about two decades. They have banned almost all promotion of breastmilk substitutes and indicated their support for breastfeeding by their maternity leave provision and through legislation affecting the rights of bf mothers at work. They also have well-staffed hospitals where healthcare workers are trained to both value and support breastfeeding.

I want to be a breastfeeding militant but I think militancy needs to be directed towards better NHS and public services/voluntary sector support for would be bf women who have issues, and improving the scary stats on women who want to do it but give up earlier than planned. Not making formula feeders feel bad if they don't or worse if they do feel guilty already.

chilly - you have it wrong about Norway, sorry. Norway was never a formula feeding society - ever. Somehow the myth has got about that it was. Norway never had fewer than something like 98 per cent initiation of bf. In the 70s they noticed that women were bf for less time, and this changed with education and campaigning. But they did not have to change a culture.

Search archives for my name and Norway - I have posted about this before.

I'm with the political / social / cultural issue people. I don't see this as a matter for berating individuals, and I don't see the choice as a particularly 'free' choice. Anything that is so socially polarised is hardly conincidental, like so much public health it is about wider social norms and subtle pressures on decision making.

Also - Italy is absolutely not bf heaven!!

www.ingentaconnect.com/content/apl/spae/2003/00000092/00000003/art00017

There's more if you Google. Exclusive breastfeeding rates are very low,though initiation is higher than UK.

I was going to say that I didnt find Italy that bf friendly when I was on holiday - but that wasnt the south of the country.

I do feel a bit militant about it having had difficult experiences and bfing through them - I try to encourage and support my pregnant friends but wouldnt say anything to anyone already fully ff - whats the point?

I havent had ABetadads experience of being bullied into bf either - if anything its the opposite and you have to really fight to bf against some very determined (thought well meaning)opposition.

though well meaning

I consider myself to be a bfing militant BUT I don't boycott Nestle.
I think it's the wrong target and it isn't the only company that has been playing loose and fast with the regulations on advertising and formula promotion. But because they are big and well known they are an easy target. Well I can assure you all the boycotts in the world ain't doing them any harm because they are still making vast profits.
My beef is with the UN, EU, WHO and national governments who are doing nothing to enforce these regulations. At the end of the day companies like Nestle have one goal and that is to make money - we cannot expect them to behave in an altruistic way - that is up to governmental policies. I find it an absolute disgrace that Britain has failed to sign up to the UN's Rights of the Child Manifesto and has only partially adopted the UN guidelines on formula advertising.

Tiktok and Chilly-

Tiktok first- you're right, in that within a few weeks, a lot of women do mixed feeding...(they were all, including HCP surprised at me, that given my advanced age- 37 I wasn't also giving a bottle of formula) What I wanted to underline though, is the norm of bf and the not seeing it as a lifestyle choice.....

I think the reason for the non-exclusive bf rates are because docs here are still considered a bit omnipotent and infallible...I was told by dd's paediatra at 6mths "you've stopped bf yes?" and it wasn't really a question...it was a presumption....And of course, it's easier for any HCP to tell you to get onto a bottle of formula, than spend the time helping you to bf properly....(and explode the myth of not-enough-milk- which I presume is what they were getting at with me, with dd, with the being 37 thing...)

But as far as initial bf goes, certainly in the hospitals, although there may be no bf counsellors/midwives etc, everyone does at least start off doing it....I do think, looking at friends of mine who have recently had babies (mine is 5- and still bf )it might actually go the other way....which of course would be a shame...there are campaigns to reduce the cost of formula etc....

Chilly- there is that aspect of it, anytime, anyplace, anywhere....no-one would ever dream of feeling embarassed (unless you're an uptight Brit like I was) either by feeding, or seeing a woman feed....(although there, the stereotype ends, in that it's feckin freezing, I've the heating on full blast, and we had a snowstorm on Wednesday afternoon....but come July, the nips will be out in full force! (on another thread yesterday, I commented about dp's 25 yr old nephew coming to see me in the hospital when I was feeding, and the only person remotely embarassed was me- for him....though he wasn't at all...

I'm Italian, from northern Italy and I can just say that the majority of people I know breast fed their babies, without being ideological about it. It is just something you do, and it is also true that it is quite rare to find people here who breast feed past 6-9 months.
I think, tbh, now that I'm back to Italy that there are so many political battles that I should channel my energies in with regards to childhood policies, that extended breastfeeding is not on the top of my list, tbh.

"And I would not take kindly to someone like yourself suggesting that it was your business to tell me what to do it or not. What gives you the right to tell me to do something so personal and intimate, let alone something that I hated doing so much. I would feel even less impressed by your approach had I not managed to bf successfully."

Being a bf militant isn't about 'telling mothers what to do'

The whole point I was trying to make (which you seem to have missed) is that bf militancy isn't about judging or bullying individual mothers: it's about raising the profile of this issue and pressing for changes in public policy to empower women to make informed choices and to bf.

"Women should have the choice and a real honest choice with good solid advice and support in both breast and bottle feeding."

I completely agree. I think parents should be given evidence based information on this issue and all marketing of formula should be banned (because marketing is by its very nature propaganda isn't it?). Health professionals would still have a duty to promote breastfeeding however as that is their job: health promotion, and this is primarily a health issue.

Sorry that your wife had such a difficult time feeding your baby. 'Insufficient milk' is a reason given by many women in the UK for stopping breastfeeding. Interestingly enough, this is something that is very infrequently observed in societies where breastfeeding is the norm. I can't help but wonder if you had been better supported by someone with expertise in breastfeeding (unlike mothers and mothers-in-law; their knowledge of bf is often even poorer than ours as they come from a generation who experienced more problems with bf that we do - basically because of widespread ignorance about bf in the 50's, 60's and 70's) the outcomes might have been different.

Sorry forgot to mention... Ds had formula in hospital. And it is something I regretted because it could have undermined by attempts to breastfeed and turned out to be completely unnecessary. However I'm am as stubborn as a mule and was full of righteous indignation that some paedistrician could have the temerity to tell me to bottlefeed because it was easier for him.

No problem - OP - entirely agree. I was and yesterday when I saw a newpaper headline that said something like 'Trend (sic) for breastfeeding leading to babies being dehydrated'
'Trend' ???? (can you tell I am cross) - makes it sounmd like a fashionista fad, not the best possible start for a baby and what our bodies have adapted for since we evolved from sea-cucumbers....

I like the idea of reappropriating the term 'militant' - taking the insult away from those would use it so.

I feel 'militantly' about bf-ing too - not because I think that everybody should make the same choice as me - I don't - I believe in informed choices for women, but because I believe that the formula industry is a socio-cultural and political (with a small p) scandal.

• by its very nature, the formula industry is seeking to replace bf-ing. Despite what it says, and what people say about it, in their ideal world, the ff companies - which are part of massive international corporations - would like to see all people ff-ing. Every commerical, profit making company has that as their goal: of course they do. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Therefore, the marketing and sale of formula for profit is, by its very nature, deeply damaging to bf-ing. Faced with that kind of opposition, I have no choice but to feel militantly about it

• Everyone - understandably - complains about a lack of bf-ing support in their communities. Why do people not complain LOUDLY that, despite being loyal customers of a product, the manufacturers of that product basically don't tell them ANYTHING about the contents of their product, or how to make it up safely, or how it may affect their baby. How many threads are there about how to make up bottles and how confused people are about what's safe? Or why the ff is giving their baby constipation? Or the runs? Or terrible wind? Or exacerbating their baby's reflux? I've seen the threads so many times: "my baby has constipation - he's on X formula". Mums pop up cheerfully and say, "Oh we had this problem, we switched to Z formula". WHY?? Why aren't they outraged that the product which they trusted bunged up their baby's digestive tract? That's the vulnerability of a market propelled by profit, rather than the genuine needs of its customers. I want to see serious research into creating as good a bm-substitute as possible, with none of the marketing gimmickry. We're not talking about choosing this or that biscuit in the supermarket - this is infant nutrition: a baby's sole food for 6 months!

• don't even get me started on the damage the formula industry has done in the developing world

Interesting thread.

This is a very tricky topic. I'm trying to decide what I believe... hmmm, not sure what I believe, I still haven't made up my mind after almost 7 months of breastfeeding, which has gradually turned into mixed feeding (& I hope goes on that way for quite a while longer).

After thinking about it (and even though I've become, with time, more interested in the politics of bf) I've decided I'm not a militant, so won't join you in that.

OK here's what I have problems with:

First of all, I have problems with the word 'choice' used as liberally as it is. I also have even bigger problems with the word 'natural' which gets used all the time. E.g. 'it's more natural to bf, lets return to what's more natural' etc. What's natural though for most of us living (e.g.) in the UK, is exactly the modern society in which we live. NOT some supposed ideal of a 'traditional' or even 'caveman' () society (how patronising by the way for those living in 'traditional' societies to hold up their way of life as the ideal, when we know little about it in most cases, & especially little about the difficulties).

As for choice- yes, ok, it is a good thing,blah blah blah, but come on, we're hardly talking about free & informed choices about all sorts of things, when so many factors determine one way of doing things or another. I'm not talking about factors we 'need to get rid of'- because I feel many bf militants- using the reclaimed word!- would like to see some of these factors removed so that bf could be restored. Well, no, that's not possible frankly. We live in a complex, modern culture, there are all sorts of cultural, sexual, political, emotional...whatever we want to call them- issues at play.

If we want to truly support breastfeeding, I think we need to be saying: 'Each case is completely individual, formula feeding (why call it artificial feeding by the way, that's so patronising too) is part of modern life, and so it's acceptable & even embraced when it needs to be done- not only because bf is impossible (very rare) but also because in some cases- in our modern society- its the best choice for some particular families in particular circumstances'.

To me, being a bf militant means automatically that we look down on formula feeding- and I don't think we can have it both ways however much we try. Everyone says 'I really truly support bf but I don't have a problem with formula feeding'. Well isn't that a paradox? Isn't that basically untrue? What I would suggest as a better tactic is to admit & accept that in modern societies people make all sorts of health choices, not all of them ideal (perhaps) but certainly in some cases a less than ideal choice is the RIGHT choice. So again, we need to deal with each particular family's circumstances & help with their feeding choices. I believe that kind of attitude would really improve bf rates.

What I also believe- and I know this is more controversial- is that we should get rid of the idea that only 'feeding on demand' of 'exclusive bf' are the ideal choices for everyone who wants to bf. Some women (me included) do very badly with very little sleep. Some want to bf but feel (maybe wrongly) they're not making enough milk. Some want to get out & about more than others do. Whatever, the possibilities are endless. So I feel we should support bf in all its different manifestations, in all the ways it exists in women's lives. Saying to someone- 'co-sleep, carry in a sling, feed on demand' is NOT always the answer for everyone. Women should be free to say, I want to gradually work towards a routine, I want to be able to sleep (gradually) a bit more, I don't want to co-sleep anymore... and they should not be judged but creatively supported in those choices too. Again, if this happens, I feel bf rates will truly improve.

My main point is that we can't get rid of the reality of life as it is- personally, nor would I want to- & return to some nirvana 'natural' state. Women make all sorts of choices in all sorts of contexts, & to think that one way is right for all (not only one way- breastfeeding or formula feeding- but also one way as in one RIGHT way to bf) is patronising, idealistic & frankly- won't get those bf rates up (which is what we all want).