I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

[chillybangbang]

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

PS. I follow the Hindu style of vegetarianism. The philosophy appeals. And no, I don't kill flies, just stun them and put them outside. I do draw the line at mosquitoes though, someone must have been a total a*hole to be reborn as a mosquito so deserves humane squashing.

yes but that rather gives the hint that humans are not natural vegans, doesn't it?

x-post - pmsl at mosquitoes - surely wasps too?

No, humans are omnivorous, just as bears are. However, the penchant for meat and fish began as a necessity for survival particularly in areas where other foodstuffs were scarce in the winter months. Nowadays, with a Tesco/Sainsbos et al. every few miles, meat consumption is non longer a requirement to get you through the winter. Not consuming any at all does in no way damage health.

Veganism may not be the "natural" choice, but in the same vein that supermarkets facilitate consumption of a range of foodstuffs once not easily available in nature, modern living also makes available non animal sources of B12.

I suppose this counters the argument equating bfing to vegetarianism in that the latter is facilitated by our relative wealth and choice, so like FF, whereas in some places in the world if you don't kill a chicken you don't eat full stop.

I bear no ill will towards wasps, oddly enough. Possibly because I've never been targetted by one. Mosquitoes, however, are the bane of my life [grrr].

lucky you (re wasps) I swear I give off wasp pheromones (and mozzie ones too)

You are obviously a very sweet person.

perhaps we ought to return this thread back to bf'ing now

I think we've frightened everyone off.

Oh well, thread killing with style.

So, bf shouldn't be considered a 'lifestyle choice'. (Is that where the tangent veered off?)

nearly - i think it wasd equating bf'ing with vegetarianism that really did it

Ah yes! That's where I was.
Choice.

Choice is not just about the freedom to make up your own mind. There seems to me to be an implication that you make a choice between two options of different but equal value eg. 'pros and cons'. But this isn't the case with ff/bf.
And that is a big part of the cultural shift required, alongside the understanding of risk that was highlighted above.

I think Abetadad's earlier post proves your point Wastingmyeducation. He thinks people should be provided with a list of pros and cons. Presumably in his view, the cons of BF would include "Mother quite likely won't make enough milk to feed a big/hungry baby, so baby will suffer." And that is a valid point if that is your experience of BF - which in your wife's case Abetadad sounds as though she struggled on without proper support or advice. Because actually it is rare not to produce enough milk, if the baby is feeding well and often, no matter how big or hungry the baby (I hope you don't mind me using you as an example).

So, this whole 'choice', give me the pros and cons and give it to me straight thing just isn't as simple as that.

Yes wastingmyeducation - I agree about choice. Am at Abetadad's experience, as is not long ago and from what he has said he's learnt today, sounds like he got no decent (or even basic) quality information from NHS at all. It isn't that complicated when it comes to bfing benefits, after all!

One of my bugbears - why is it accepted that somebody accidentally taking a swig of breastmilk (usually in sitcoms) is totally disgusting, but drinking the equivalent from a different species (cows/goats) is perfectly normal?!

I suppose because it's a bodily fluid, whereas cows' milk has been pasteurised. Rightly or wrongly I would feel a bit disgusted about drinking untreated cows' milk!
Was very impressed by DH when we went away and left DS for a night when he was about a year. I took my breast pump as get engorged but couldn't be bothered with sterilising and transporting milk around, but still felt upset at having to throw it out - DH said he would have it in his tea! When I said "Really?" he said yes of course.

It's an untreated bodily fluid I mean - I'm aware cows' milk is too!

Actually, that's an interesting point StealthPolarBear. Have to admit that I would be about drinking breast milk, so my point was more "but why is that?" iyswim.

Although, you're right, I wouldn't see it as the end of the world if I accidentally drank some untreated milk (cow or human), I would just rather choose not to. Like you say, the fact it's even treated as a funny incident says a lot about the way people think about bm. Although the only scene I can think of like that is in Friends, and opinion is divided iirc!

I am a complete feminist in lots of ways but i really resent it when it comes to people saying, re breastfeeding, that its a "womans right to choose." In this regard i dont think it has anything to do with the woman - its about what is right for the baby. My sister in law "choose" not to breast feed - she didnt even try - and personally i think if you are that selfish from day one you should be allowed to have children. I(flame, flame, flame)..

Before i get flamed I DO understand that some women have difficulty - I'm not saying its wrong to bottlefeed when the circumstanced dictate that it is necessary.

sorry. meant to say "chose". am jetlagged.

you can't 'tell' people whether or not to breastfeed just as you can't tell them whether or not to be a SAHM or whether or not to educate their DC's privately

One interesting thing that I have noticed is that giving the occasional bottle is considered perfectly normal in Sweden, the country with the highest breastfeeding rates in the world.

Here it is seen as gospel truth that if you give in and give a bottle, you are compromising your breastmilk supply and can no longer consider yourself a breastfeeder. So you might as well give up at once.

I have several friends here who gave up breastfeeding because they did give in and gave that late night bottle when they were exhausted. In Sweden they would probably have carried on breastfeeding the next day because nobody would have told them they couldn't.

sorry dolly, i dont think you can compare breastfeeding to work or education choices!!!! breastfeeding is without a doubt better for babies. SAHM or WM, state or private - case not proven in either direction

We're very all or nothing in this country though in general I think. We drink to get drunk for instance.