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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

250 replies

chillybangbang · 20/02/2009 08:03

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

OP posts:
Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:32

I know what you meant, TheFallenMadonna.

But, if more "normal" (shudder - I hate that term - but you get what I mean) bf-ers came out and said how strongly they felt about it - the "normal" ones, ie. everyone! (Not the scary stereotype of hairy armpitted lentil weaving haystack with 2 10 year olds hanging off her boobs), then what would we be looking at?

God, I hate even typing all that because all this talk of "ooohh, we don't want to make women feel unable to identify, etc." is intrinsically so unfair to the women who - for all their supposed "prominence" as bf-ers, are actually a tiny, and much-attacked minority. Minorities have always had to be vocal, I'm afraid.

And besides, what's the problem if you are a hairy armpitted lentil weaver? Why should you be judged for that?

If it so horribly wrong to judge a FF-ing mum, it is equally wrong to judge and make fun of "hippy" types. In reality, they are the minority. They deserve defending.

TheFallenMadonna - I know that's not what you're saying, btw. I was just taking your remarks to their extreme conclusion, IYSWIM.

OrmIrian · 20/02/2009 10:35

No.

I am not a militant anything. I can just about manage 'quite determined' so 'militant' it waaaay beyond me.

But I have bf 3 DCs for a grand total of 7 yrs.

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:37

LOL @ OrmIrian! I want a "quite determined" badge! It's the bf-ing equivalent of Father Ted's "Down with this sort of thing" .

ABetaDad · 20/02/2009 10:38

Sorry to post again in such rapid succession but this thread has opened my eyes to something I never knew.

Women can BOTH breast and bottle feed at the same time!

I know this sounds ridiculous but when my wife was struggling to bf she might well have carried on longer if someone had told her she could do both and had given her some support. All we got told was 'breast is best' and that if we chose bottle well that was our choice and no one would say any more than that.

I am now feeling quite angry at all the distress and guilt my wife went through. If someone had just said "its OK to try a bit of both" I think the whole scenario would have changed. It was always presented to us as either breast or bottle but never as try some mixed feeding and see how it goes.

Maria2007 · 20/02/2009 10:38

True, nothing wrong at all with hairy armpitted lentil weaver.

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:41

ABetaDad -

Original poster
chillybangbang · 20/02/2009 10:44

"I do wonder whether this kind of identification actually reinforces the stereotype of 'a certain type of woman' who breastfeeds. And could therefore be considered counterproductive."

But we can't ignore the huge social variations in bf rates if we want to tackle the current overall low bf rates. The variations are very striking - around 90% of professional women initiate bf, compared to well under 50% of women who have never worked. There are similar differences in bf rates among very young and older mothers, and also huge regional variations. I see this partly as an education issue, and also one of empowerment. It's hard enough for anyone to challenge the misinformation we are often given by health professionals, let alone for very young mums, or those mums without much formal education or any social contact with normal breastfeeding.

OP posts:
Maria2007 · 20/02/2009 10:47

ABetaDad- very true. Women CAN and DO both breast & bottle feed (at the same time). Very true. Not ideal, perhaps (particularly not ideal in the early days of bf), but that's what happens in real life. And a perfectly realistic choice for many families.
It's not only that your wife wasn't told she could do both (and perhaps she was rightly not encouraged to ff in the early days, because that would have hurt her supply). What she was also probably not told is that there are many in her position, & not all women find the exact same solutions to these issues, and that there's not just one right way to bf, and that maybe she could try only bf for a few months, and then move on to mixed feeding etc. Many variations on this theme.
The guilt involved in all this is unbelievable. I know, I still feel it. But people who support bf should really be more open to how things happen in the real world. Not pushing one right way of promoting bf- but supporting the many different ways in which bf can exist in a real life family. I think TikTok (from what I've gathered from what she writes) is a good example of a realistic bf counsellor. Not that she supports ff. But she's just down to earth & pragmatic about it all- and very very warm-, I feel. (Sorry TikTok if that's not an adequate representation of your beliefs! I'm sure you'll come along to this thread sooner or later btw ).

wastingmyeducation · 20/02/2009 10:48

I don't see the equation of ff = omnivorous diet bf = vegetarian I'm afraid ABetaDad.

OrmIrian · 20/02/2009 10:49

Mixed feeding saved my bfing once or twice. If I hadn't been told it was 'OK' I'd have given up.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/02/2009 10:50

No. You are saying things which are not related to what I said at all (making fun of and laughing at hippy types), and adding in a "oooh-" in front of what I did say, which seems to me to be, well, making fun...

And I absolutely aggree with you BTW that people should come out and well, breastfeed. I just don't think they need to be labelled militant. Nor do I think it is politically helpful.

TheProvincialLady · 20/02/2009 10:50

Sorry to be pedantic Abetadad but there is a difference between urging people to be vegetarian, which is a lifestyle choice (I know, I am one) and promoting BF as the healthiest and biologically normal way to feed a baby.

I see your point about facts but I can't see people being happy to see genuinely factual posters about the risks of FF.

However you feel, your hospital clearly isn't getting it right or you wouldn't have remembered it so well!

Maria2007 · 20/02/2009 10:51

OrmIrian- funny how a thread about militant bf is kind of including (at least for some of us) the benefits of mixed feeding. BTW I still don't believe mixed feeding is the best choice. I would have preferred to be still exclusively bf-ing (plus solids) at this point. I'm just asking questions about how we deal with the realities of real life baby-feeding choices. Not what we believe about what SHOULD be happening; but how we deal with what IS happening.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/02/2009 10:52

I'm not ignoring the social differences chilly. I'm thinking of them very directly in fact.

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:53

Sorry, TheFallenMadonna - I really didn't mean to twist your words and intended meaning. Honestly. I really apologise.

I wasn't making fun. I repeated the phrase, I think, because it was in my mind, rather than because I wanted to make fun of your point.

As I said, I do understand what you meant, and agree that it is an issue.

But again, I'm sorry if I upset or offended you.

Original poster
chillybangbang · 20/02/2009 10:53

Oops - sorry for that last post. Think I have got the wrong end of the stick.

Fallenmadonna - I always start from a position of trust: that all women want what's best for their babies - in the context of what they know and what is possible for them, in social, emotional and physical terms.

As a lactivist I see the attitudes you describe as being rooted in ignorance and disempowerment. Women who think this way genuinely don't understand the value of breastfeeding because they haven't been properly educated on the subject. I don't think it's fair to criticise women who express these views for being selfish.

Re: unpleasant, offputting image of 'lactivist/radical/militant women...... this will always be the case as long as we live in a mysogyinist society which ridicules outspoken, driven and opinionated women as unfeminine and unattractive.

OP posts:
Maria2007 · 20/02/2009 10:53

Provincial Lady: why is vegetarianism a lifestyle choice though? Surely some people believe that it's the healthiest & biologically normal way to feed ourselves. I've certainly heard this argument made from vegetarian friends of mine. There is quite a blurred line between what is a 'lifestyle' choice (what does that even mean, actually) & a 'health' choice. To me the 2 can't be that clearly distinguished actually.

bloss · 20/02/2009 10:54

Message withdrawn

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:56

Oooh - can I join the O/T meat-eating discussion! It is, IMHO, "natural" to eat meat: we are most closely related to chimps, the only meat-eating apes; and we have incisors, teeth which evolved for the sole purpose of meat-eating. Ta-dah.

My 2p!

FaintlyMacabre · 20/02/2009 10:56

Just had to add to the 'natural' terminology debate. Yes, in the 21st century we do plenty of things that aren't 'natural' and a good thing too! (thinking of antibiotics, sewage systems, contraceptive pill etc etc). But I think it is worthwhile informing ourselves of what is natural for human beings to do in a certain situation as then we can decide if the unnatural alternative is better or worse than the natural way.
So dying of pneumonia=natural=bad, antibiotics=unnatural=good.
But with food, not just breastmilk but all foods, it is becoming increasingly clear that food not eaten in its natural state (eg transfats, refined sugars)can lead to worse health. And it is similar with breast/formula milk.
What I'm trying to say is that if we aren't going to do things the 'natural' way there should be well thought out reasons for doing so.

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:59

Oh, and canines - aren't they meat-eating teeth too?

Penthesileia · 20/02/2009 10:59
TheyCallMePeachy · 20/02/2009 11:00

'Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.
'

I agreee with all that definitely,but as long as the term militant is used by some to denote forcing choices and even blame on women I'davoid it personally: I want to be able toadvise from a perspective where I hope Mum knows I am not wanitng to force anything on you.

wastingmyeducation · 20/02/2009 11:01

So there's debate about what type of diet humans are evolved for.

This is not the case where human infants are concerned!

MamacitaGordita · 20/02/2009 11:01

Wow it's hard to keep up here! What a deep-thinking thread for a weekday morning- mentions of Foucault and all! Takes me back to my uni days of skiving pondering the finer aspects of sociology.

'Re: unpleasant, offputting image of 'lactivist/radical/militant women...... this will always be the case as long as we live in a mysogyinist society which ridicules outspoken, driven and opinionated women as unfeminine and unattractive.'

Totally agree, chilly, it's a sad state of affairs. Very well said.