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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

250 replies

chillybangbang · 20/02/2009 08:03

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

OP posts:
ruty · 20/02/2009 14:20

what i find so shocking is the number of gps who know nothing about breastfeeding, or who actually discourage breastfeeding after 6 months. The NHS should be doing a lot more to
educate its staff at grass roots level.

giantkatestacks · 20/02/2009 14:44

Sorry just wanted to pop back and respond to ABetadad - yes a health worker and not an employer - lots of midwives and in fact a bfc didnt believe that I could breastfeed when I knew perfectly well that I could.

I think we do have a problem of how breastfeeding women are perceived in this country there is this perception that you have to be middleclass and a bit lentil weavery - this isnt about education but about normalisation as has been said before and this is why bfing women need to get out there and feed in public.

My SIL is pragnant at the moment and am trying to give her lots of support but am being undermined by my MIL who keeps banging on about how she wont be able to - in fact theres no point in starting because shes going to go back to work after 6 months - like its only something that sahms do.

That whole lifestyle thing fits in to something maria said earlier and that I agree with - you can bf with a routine and you dont have to co sleep etc - I do think the perception that you cant puts people off.

thedolly · 20/02/2009 14:50

Breastfeeding is not better for babies if it drives the mother to distraction, self doubt and self loathing!

The work and education choices are just further behind on the evolutionary ladder. In 50 years time there may be unequivocal proof as to what is best in that arena.

SnowlightMcKenzie · 20/02/2009 14:54

thedolly The thing is, is it really bfing that drives the mother to distraction, self doubt and self loathing, or is it that our culture and society can sometimes drive a bfing mother to distraction, self doubt and self loathing?

And, which needs to be fixed?

giantkatestacks · 20/02/2009 14:54

tsk pregnant

I think it only drives those women to distraction etc because society is so down on it generally and we dont have normal expectations of what its going to be like and we dont get enough support and help. If all those things werent there then there wouldnt be the self doubt and self loathing.

Even though I have, at times, found it very difficult indeed it makes me feel really very proud of myself and I want to share that feeling with others.

thedolly · 20/02/2009 14:59

Wombleprincess The point I am making is that people make choices based on what is right for them. There is no use in trying to make something very complex into an issue of black and/or white.

thedolly · 20/02/2009 15:05

SnowlightMcKenzie no, of course you are right, it's not the breastfeeding itself but the huge 'weight' attached to it that does the damage

wombleprincess · 20/02/2009 15:08

its not a complex issue, healthwise, breastfeeding is better for babies. are you disputing that?

wombleprincess · 20/02/2009 15:09

"The work and education choices are just further behind on the evolutionary ladder. In 50 years time there may be unequivocal proof as to what is best in that arena."

sorry, what poppyc*ck

sweetkitty · 20/02/2009 15:21

A conversation I had today in the supermarket sums up BFing in this area or maybe this country
woman "oh she is lovely (DD3 how old is she?"
me "7 months"
woman "oh she is big for 7 months does she sleep through the night?"
me "no and she never has"
woman "can't you give her stronger milk you know in her bottle/"
me "no she is breastfed although she has 3 meals a day too"
woman "oh" and looks at me as if i had just said I give her lager to drink

This is the norm that it is assumed that babies are bottlefed, yes breast is best and all that but nearly everyone I know bottlefeeds and I have heard every reason why, for some reason the minute you say you are BFing you have to have a reason why they aren't (as if I care)

  • my husband didn't want me to
  • don't know how much they are getting
  • I wanted some sleep
  • I wanted to drink again
  • my Mum/MIL wanted to feed the baby too
  • yuck the thought of something hanging off my boob
  • my milk never came in
  • I never made enough milk
  • he/she didn't want to BF
  • I got mastitis

When someone says yuck but it's breastmilk I want to scream BUT YOU PUT THE BREASTMILK OF ANOTHER ANIMAL IN YOUR TEA, an animal that lives in a field and licks it's own arse!

Sadly I have heard them all

MintChocAddict · 20/02/2009 15:33

"As a lactivist I see the attitudes you describe as being rooted in ignorance and disempowerment. Women who think this way genuinely don't understand the value of breastfeeding because they haven't been properly educated on the subject. I don't think it's fair to criticise women who express these views for being selfish."

and

As straightforward as that is it?

I'm a professional, empowered and highly
educated women who looked into both methods of feeding and made a decision to try to BF. Unfortunately I couldn't make it work and therefore DS was FF (not artificially fed ) from very early on. I hated BF and was absolutely determined to stop. I didn't want to phone helplines or have random strangers advising me on my technique.

Please don't presume that if all women were aware of the benefits of BF and had support on hand that they would make the choice to BF. I'm aware of the benefits, I wouldn't attempt it again and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your idea of saving the FF's from themselves, but there you go.

Alibabaandthe40nappies - having a quiet word with your brother about your S-I-L decision to FF. Good luck with that one.

thedolly · 20/02/2009 15:51

Wombleprincess no, I am not disputing that it is best healthwise. I have BF all 3 of my DC. DS2 is almost 2 and still going strong

I think it's OK to write poppycock BTW

ABetaDad · 20/02/2009 15:52

sweetkitty

"When someone says yuck but it's breastmilk I want to scream BUT YOU PUT THE BREASTMILK OF ANOTHER ANIMAL IN YOUR TEA, an animal that lives in a field and licks it's own arse!"

They also regulalrly stick their tongues up their own noses and eat their bogies as well. They also vomit int their own mouth and eat their own sick before turning it all into milk.

Just in case you needed further info to make your point with anyone like.

thedolly · 20/02/2009 15:53

WP - Sweetkitty illustrates beautifully how complex the whole thing is, don't you think?

laumiere · 20/02/2009 15:55

To chilly:

"I am a militant lactivist, have you got a problem with that?"

Personally no, though I do feel that at the moment BFing is intensely politicised (whereas the formula response is almost invisible because it is so ingrained into society).

I would have a problem with it if women who are lactivists judge or bully other women who perhaps don't share their views (or at least their level of passion) as this often causes resentment.

For my part I am dismayed at the whole BF situation. It feels like a trap for women in the UK at the moment: BF exclusively until 6 months, when many women have to go back to work, then express if you have an understanding employer (and it IS still on sufferance) AND you are able to stand the stares and comments when you're away from your desk for 3-4 times a day (assuming you can express - I found it to be exquisite torture). Keep this up for 6 months or longer, or give up and use one of the expensive formulas or follow on milks because cows' milk is not recommended.

Do you think the current recession in the UK will affect breastfeeding rates?

SnowlightMcKenzie · 20/02/2009 15:58

MintChocChip Are you suggesting that society made no impact at all on your decision to ff?

Are you suggesting that a culture that is plays down the importance of child-rearing, tries to encourage babies and children to 'fit in' to a pre-determined routine and lifestyle as fast as possible did nit affect your choice?

Would you say that as an 'empowered' woman in the paid worforce, hours spent on the sofa feeding felt less rewarding than your paid work perhaps?

Do you not agree that current definitions of sucess wrt womens achievements can often work against bfing and its perceived worth?

thedolly · 20/02/2009 16:01

Sweetkitty and ABetaDad when someone says "yuck but it's breastmilk" I think the revulsion is because of the whole breasts/boobs/sex thing. And since most people don't have sex with animals I think you are not really addressing the issue by illustrating the finer points of regurgitation and the like.

wastingmyeducation · 20/02/2009 16:09

MintChocChip, I don't see why you are angry about referring to processed cows milk in a bottle 'artificial'?
It's not derogatory, it's descriptive.

tiktok · 20/02/2009 16:20

cory, you say "Here it is seen as gospel truth that if you give in and give a bottle, you are compromising your breastmilk supply and can no longer consider yourself a breastfeeder. So you might as well give up at once. "

Are you living on the same planet? The incidence of mixed feeding - giving formula as well as breastmilk - increases with every survey (check for yourself - look at the five-yearly Infant Feeding surveys on the DoH website). There may be one or two misinformed people who no longer consider themselves breastfeeders for doing this, but the attitude does not seem to have put people off doing it!

Where have you heard that people think 'you might as well give up at once' after a bottle???

There is a daft idea that surfaces sometimes that giving a bottle 'destroys' the 'benefits of breastfeeding' and makes continuing pointless. When it surfaces on mumsnet - where loads of people use bottles as well as bf - it's quickly corrected, in my experience.

Of course the most physioligical way to feed a baby is on breastmilk alone with no other foods or fluids for about six months, but when women don't manage this sort of exclusivity, it's more often their own feelings that cause the disappointment, rather than other people's comments or attitudes...don't you agree?

StealthPolarBear · 20/02/2009 16:44

laumiere very good point about the trap. Bf is the choice a lot of people make but they then have to fight a lot of crap (I'm not talking about real breastfeeding problems, more the attitude of other people, as you mention, tutting because you have expressing breaks at work).
A similar thing is that while (IME) everyone expects you to breastfeed when you're pregnant, within a couple of months you are expected to "name the date" when you will stop. People find it reassuring. Not sure why.

StealthPolarBear · 20/02/2009 16:46

But OTOH it isn't just breastfeeding or formula feeding that demonstrates the trap - mothers on the whole (and I do mean mothers) tend to have to deal with that from the minute they announce their pregnancy. Is that just WOHM mothers, or do SAHMs have some of the same issues?

StealthPolarBear · 20/02/2009 16:47

Wow I'm really managing to waffle and make no sense.
A mother's place is IN THE WRONG!

georgimama · 20/02/2009 16:58

I know exactloy what you mean Stealth.

With the "how long will you BF for" business I genuinely think it is (mostly) kindly meant. People see the baby weaning as a development which is good and part of the baby turning into an infant and then into a child. But it also undermines BF for anything approaching natural term as being desirable or normal.

I consider myself an ardent lactivist and then have to remember that DS was mixed fed from nine months to a year because I went back to work. It is true that I could have pumped and stored a supply for him at nursery but frankly I felt like I had enough on my plate working full time. I suppose I did let the side down.

I did night time feed him to 22 months though.

FairLadyRantALot · 20/02/2009 16:58

hm...I don't think I like being classed as militant...because it means vigorously active and aggressive...so...not really positive.

sweetkitty · 20/02/2009 17:09

thedolly - I see you point, in this country breasts are seen on the whole as playthings for the enjoyment of men, breasts are not meant for sex (yes they are erogenous etc) but you can still have a great sex life and become pregnant without breasts playing any part in the sexual act IYSWIM. Breasts are meant to feed human babies.

Somewhere along the way this has been lost and we are now in this weird place where BFing in public is seen as obscene by many yet page 3 is not. What is it that a baby sucking on a breast to obtain nutrition to grow and survive is seen as weird? Is it because we as women have allowed men to claim the rights to our breasts?

Cows udders aren't sexy are they? I always think it's bizarre that as adults we still drink the breastmilk of another species, we are not designed for it, it's unnatural.

At the end of the day it all comes down to profit, no profit in breastfeeding, formula companies do not want ANYONE to breastfeed.

It's inspired come up with a product that is nowhere near as good as the natural product, convince mothers it's better and sit back and reap the rewards. It's like saying I have invented something like oxygen, it's not as good as the oxygen you breathe for free but I'm going to convince you it is and I am going to charge you a whack for it, within a generation, almost everyone will be breathing my new product and if anyone wants to breathe free oxygen there will be no support out there for them to do so, so chances are they will fail.

I am not saying formula is the devils work far from it, I know a lot of babies wouldn't be here today if it weren't for formula, I just marvel at how clever these formula companies have been over the past 50 or so years.