I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

[chillybangbang]

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

Tiktok I don't think those posters are indoctrinating, - now, after having mixed fed no.1 and exclusively bf no.2, but pre baby 1 I did.

It doesn't really matter whether they are or not, the point is the perception of the new mother to be and her partner.

I'll try very hard to remember my feelings at the time, which is hard because my feelings now are poles apart from my feelings then, when seeing them for the first time.

I think part of the problem is that people are becoming more and more cynical about medical advice, and a perceived 'nanny state', therefore any advice coming from a government run, poorly funded, cost saving health service needs to have their motives questioned. (Dunno why this doesn't apply to commercially sold formula, but it just doesn't seem to).

I think it also has to be taken in the context of maternity services. Most women are scared sh*tless at the prospect of giving birth and try to retain as much control as they can when facing the unpredictable. We have midwives telling us what we should and shouldn't be doing is a challenge to our sense of control too.

I think the feeding issue can become one area where a woman takes back some level of control after the birth.

If I'm right about this then bfing needs to feel absolutely the decision of the mother, for herself and her baby, and NOT because the maternity unit is promoting it, mws refusing to discuss ff as a matter of course or because during pregnancy there is an awkwardly enforced assumption that a mother will breastfeed.

Of course it needs to be promoted however, but in a more logical, factual, information based and non-judgemental way.

I felt the posters in my maternity unit were trying to force and guilt me into bfing, and my initial instinct was to rebel. (even though, now, as a bfing advocate I really don't see those posters like that)

Ramble - sorry, but hopefully you get my point.

Re mixed feeding: It's had to get the message across about mixed feeding with clarity and in a form women can work with. I think we need to know that some women do successfully mixed feed from early on, but we also need to know that mixed feeding often reduces the overall duration of breastfeeding,and makes bf more difficult and unpleasant for some women. There needs to be an acknowledgement that mixed feeding is often the result of poor bf management rather than a deliberate informed choice. We also need to know the about the health risks of mixed feeding. I suppose it's a communication issue. It's a complicated picture and parents have to make sense of it at a time when they are under a great deal of pressure.

Nah Penthesileia - you're alright

Chilly - given that we do live in a misogynistic society that hates outspoken women etc, that is the context in which we are addressing the breastfeeding issue. So we can't just dismiss it.

And my hackles rise slightly I think at the 'education' issue. I was given good information and support about breastfeeding by my midwife, although my time on MN has led me to understand that this might not always be the case. I don't for one moment think that all of her women went on to breastfeed though. It is more than education. It reminds me strongly of the issue of young girls getting pregnant. That isn't about education either, not exclusively anyway.

And where you are talking about social differences, you might be on shaky ground if you argue that "Women who think this way genuinely don't understand the value of breastfeeding because they haven't been properly educated on the subject". Politically anyway.

"It is more than education. It reminds me strongly of the issue of young girls getting pregnant. That isn't about education either, not exclusively anyway"

Yes - true. It is about much, much more than education. It's about social mores generally. Think your parallel with teenage pregnancy is helpful.

But if we think of education in a looser way, to include social exposure to normal bf as well as formal learning, then maybe that would make more sense.

It is moe than education but education is the thing that can topple the balance.

Whilst remembering that ds1 is exclusively BF at ten months,take the situation with ds1.

He was born IUGr (just over 5 lbs at fullterm) after a traumatic pregnancy. This was at the Millenium, BYW. Just to therow an additional complication in. BF didn't work out at all,he didn't gain (I know know why I think- same casein intol that nearly scuppered it with ds4)

Did the BF go wrong because of any one factor? probably not, but maybe I'd have felt a lot more positively about it if MIL hadn't shut me way for hours ver Christmas and even forced me into my room in my own house to BF becuase it ws disgusting? If my Mum hadnt viewed it with suspicion becuase she was told she oculdn't make enough milk? (Mum's attitude has changesd loads now btw).

I use myself specifically as I know I can BF so as not to reflect on those who genuinely cannot.

And trhe difference between ds1 /ds2 (ds2 fed until four months mixed) and ds3/4 (ds3 fed mixed until 16 months)-? Education (I did a BFI course forwork)and support (on MN). Most people I know don't bf, my sister did but her alds younger than ds3. Beinga round peolpewho knew it could be done and learning how it worked made a masive differece.

Penthe, yuo won't be too keen on thinking about orangutans then - they are fruitarians and have whopping great canines!

Maria - I actually think that a militant bf'ing thread is the perfect place to advocate mixed feeding when necessary - imo, if it helps the mum to continue bf'ing then it is a good thing. IF you can get by without it, then that is a bit better (imo) but not everyone can and the health and wellbeing of the mum has to be taken into consideration as well, especially the mental health aspect (PND etc.)

sssshhhh, thumbwitch! You're ruining my perfectly good and obviously quite brilliant and convincing argument!

They clearly pop down Macdonald's when no-one is looking.

ah I know - I used to use the canines argument as well until I read something somewhere about the orangs etc. Personally I think they made a "lifestyle" choice to be tree-hugging fruitarians!

Too true. Hippy drop-outs, the lot of them.

Ok, but surely incisors are meat-eating teeth??? That part of my argument is right at least???

sorry love, no - even rabbits have incisors! they're the ones that need to be worn down all the time..

I breastfed because it was more natural. But then, I myself buy, prepare and eat food that is, on the whole, pretty close to its natural state because I believe very strongly, on the basis of all that I have read, that humans are healthier when eating a fairly natural and varied diet. Breastfeeding was part of that holistic belief in healthy nutrition throughout life.

I also walk rather than drive because it is more natural and I feel healthier for it. And I am bringing my child up to behave in the same way.

There are many choices in modern society where we have to make trade-offs between natural and healthy versus artificial and unhealthy. But there are also choices we make between natural and unhealthy versus artificial and healthy...

I'm a militant lactivist

I think the lack of normalisation and education is a huge huge problem. My future SIL is a bright, educated, middle-class girl - and yes in this discussion class is relevant.
While watching me BF DS she has said 'oh I don't think I could cope with that, I want to FF. After all my Mum FF me and my brother and we're fine.' I haven't broached the issue with her as yet, but these are my brother's (potential) children that we're talking about here so of course I am concerned for their welfare. I am going to talk to my bro about it and just ask him to make sure that they both look at the reasearch very carefully when the time comes.
Contrast that with my cousin, who isn't massively keen on the idea of BFing, but she's a Dr and has done the research, and she is going to do it anyway because she knows it's the best thing from a health point of view. It's all about education.

I agree with whoever said they are militant about childhood nutrition full stop.

There is no point exclusively BFing for 6 months then stuffing your kids with McDonalds three times a week by the time they are five.

I don't judge my neice for FF her son, but I do judge her for giving a 2 year old chicken mcnuggets with barbeque sauce nearly every day.

Dammit.

You're sure, though, thumbwitch, that there aren't great hordes of rampaging, meat-eating rabbits? Can you prove that??? Huh??

chilly - sorry for hijacking your thread, btw.

I see breastfeeding rates as a public health and political issue. I also think of extended breastfeeding as a political issue, as (regardless of the intentions of the parents) people take issue with it, as it is rare (or is seen as rare).
I don't like the term militant though, I don't think negative implications are limited to MN!

"After all my Mum FF me and my brother and we're fine."

And there you have I think another big stumbling blocks to the idea of educating people as to the benefits of breastfeeding or negatives of formula feeding. The personal and anecdotal trumps the generalised and epidemiological. You hear it all the time with reference to smoking and eating habits and well, most things really. Educating people out of that is a big ask.

Penthe - it's nothing to do woth teeth, it's abuot intestines. and no, we don't have carnivores' intestines, which are practically one straight line so the met doesn't rot and fester in there. IIRC our intestines are more seed eaters or something (must google a bear's intestines, since they are also omnivores). The point is, whereas meat was once necessary for survival, nowadays in the developed world it no longer is. We can live a meat free existence without detriment to health, but we cannotbe totally vegetable free without causing harm to our organism. But that's by the bye.

Sorry, O/T. as you were. But I agree the analogy about bfing and vegetarianism is illogical.

pmsl penthe - well, there is THIS one!

Brange - I know now: I have been re-educated by thumbwitch!

LOL thumbwitch - I'd forgotten that scene!

Ok, really feel bad now about hijacking thread.

Brangelina, - what about vitamin B12? only available to us from animal sources (including dairy) - so vegans at risk of B12 deficiency. Seaweed analogues are not easily absorbed, if at all.

ROFL thumbwitch

Ah, but I only said vegetarian, not vegan. Much as I admire vegans it is far too tiring for me. Eggs are an admirable source if you don't do dairy, and some funghi, although you'd have to eat tons and probably get the runs.

Sorry, got cut off. Meant to add, you only need small amounts of B12 for optimum health, so it doesn't justify meat consumption on a large scale, all you'd need is a little cheese and the odd egg (better if with marmite soldiers). Sorry, going off on a tangent completely here.

true Brangelina, you did - but since this is a militant thread I wasn't sure how militant your vegetarianism was. True vegetarians are vegans; otherwise they are such things as lacto-vegetarianas, lacto-ovo-vegetarians, ovo-vegetarians, pescetarians (or fishytarians) - and my out and out favourite, the fishy-chickytarians.

Yes, you don't need much B12 but if you are a true veg(etari)an then B12 injections are often advisable.

But then surely that would be "unnatural"?