Anyone interested in an 'extended' bfers support thread?

[lilysma]

Not sure what I mean by 'extended' exactly - maybe it's a self defined thing?

I define myself as an 'extended' bfer because I hardly know anyone else bfing a child as old as mine (DD is 26 months) and feel the need to discuss some issues with people also doing this and wonder if anyone else does??

Anyone up for an informal support thread on this?

I just have to keep pushing the hand away or telling him to stroke my arm. I just tell myself it's a sign of affection.....

Hello all, I am a not very extended bfer compared with some of you (dd3 is nearly 14 months) but I have been reading some of the thread as I've been feeling a bit odd IRL about continuing to feed.

Anyway, what has made me finally declare myself on here is that I've just come back from a 9 day trip without dd3, which I thought would be the end of feeding, but she has gone back to it quite happily. DH says she was fine while I was away, she had cow's milk morning and evening. She usually feeds just morning and evening (I night weaned at 8 months), but asked a couple of times during the day on the day I got back, maybe there wasn't much there each time. I hand-expressed a little every couple of days while I was away, there didn't seem to be much there but it must have been enough just to keep the supply going. Obviously all dcs are different but just wanted to show that bfing doesn't mean you can't ever leave your LO overnight.

ponto! How did your dd3 get to be 14months already??

Nice to see you on here.

Gemma - yes she used to have him regularly before he went to nursery a few months ago and she would just wait till he got foul tempered and lie down on the bed with him till he went to sleep. Sometimes he shouted for a while, sometimes he just crashed, and sometimes he fell asleep on her! He's going to sleep in her bed with her so I think he'll be fine.

I have agreed for him to go now, so DH and I have to decide what to go and see at the cinema. We'll have been twice in one week!!

We're not going far and once we're home we're literally round the corner, but it still feels like a big thing to me!

Gemmamc - having a trial run overnight's a good idea so you don't feel too stressed if you're away for work (and you'll get a night off!). Have left my DS several times overnight with my parents and he's always been absolutley fine (and importantly, so have they!). Though I've always bf him in the evening b4 leaving - but then find it easier to leave him to stay up with G&Gd and get put to bed by them later - my dad's quite good at getting him to sleep. Am having to leave him overnight, and until late next evening in a few weeks, which is longer than I've left him and spans the two periods that he's most keen on a bit of mummy time. Was hoping to have reduced feeding a fair bit by that time, but the opposite seems to have happened. I think its because I read 'Mothering your nursing Toddler' which is a LLL book and very encouraging, but has simply infiltrated my mind to give in to the little fella whenever his need seems great. This has coincided with him becoming good at issuing plaintive requests that I find hard to ignore! But good luck to you meanwhile!

Mawbroon - thanks for yor comment on the ever waxing and waning business of night weaning. That 3 week bizz is spooky. I think I'm on 3 weeks of not really not feeding at night! Need to gain control again, but you just can't let your guard slip for a minute, can you!

Ponto, thanks so much for this - and great for you. That's really encouraging. It does make me think that night weaning between now and the trip would help...

Pickle - with the LLL book (which I haven't read) you raise an interesting issue. I have great respect for LLL, pretty much the only organisation supporting extended bf. But I wonder whether it is really right to always give in. I mean, when they are around 2 they are incredibly demanding and often unreasonable and of course we set boundaries on everything else and resist their tantrums - so isn't it better to set some boundaries also for bf? Not that I consider frequent bf from a toddler the same as a tantrum of course, but at the same time sometimes it does feel a bit like that. And the more I give in, the more he wants.

Can someone save me the time to go through the whole thread and summarise how people have been night weaning?

Chair - have fun at the cinema! DH and I haven't been to the cinema together in the evening since DS was born (we did go once on a Sunday afternoon....but it didn't feel the same). We've got the added complexity generally of not having much family around to babysit, but hopefully we'll manage soon.

I haven't read the mothering your nursing toddler book (kept thinking that ds was about to wean!) but I am fairly sure it wouldn't talk in terms of 'giving in'.

IME with ds, distraction or offering snack/drink rarely worked. His need was so great for nursing. I really believe it was a need rather than a want. Of course there are times when it's not practical to feed when requested. I did sometimes tell ds no (I had to pick the moments when he wasn't tired etc), and if he was upset, I used to cuddle him and say I knew it was hard for him, but mummy sometimes says no. If he then became so upset that he was distressed, then I would let him nurse. I am talking in the past tense here because I am referring to when he was about age 2.5-3yo.

He is now nearly 4 and I guess I work in much the same way, but he doesn't ask much for it any more, and often in his after tea tiredness etc, he is willing to wait a bit longer until bedtime.

HTH

Hello all!

Ds is starting to settle down at night, but I am still sleeping with him for part of the night, tbh I don't mind, as he is soo cute and sneuggly. Plus he doesn't snore and sweat buckets like DH
He has some nights better than others, sometimes only once he'll want a feed, other times he wants more.

But I can really see him feeding well beyond 2yo!!

Back again, dd has now self weaned (I think) - she's 3 in four weeks. ds is still going strong at 14 months.

I have just back from my local LLL meeting (2 bus trek but wasn't too bad to get to!) and was a bit surprised to have almost the youngest feeding child (the other was a new person with a 5 month baby looking for some advice).

What did surprise me though, was when I said we were night weaning and I'd like other people's advice on that, they looked at my like I was more than slightly odd. Once of them said to me - "If he takes a while to settle, why not just feed him" Hmmm, why didn't I think of that! (perhaps because every time I do just feed him, now he comes into our bed on his own, his feeds get more and more frequent) I said it was because he doesn't go back to sleep afterwards (which is the other reason) but was a bit sad not to be able to get other people's experience.

Perhaps its akin to asking how to make an annabel Karmel recipe at a BLW group (if such things exist)

I am sorry people were not as understanding as you would have liked. It's pretty clear that people have a variety of different opinions on whether, and when to night wean.

I personally have been resisting until June this year, when I decided that not having had a full nights' sleep since October 2007 (DS was born in November that year, but I had lots of problems at the end of pregnancy) was starting to drive me mad. My ds has never ever slept for more than 6 hours and on average he still wakes up every 2-3 hours - and the more I give in and feed, the more he tends to wake up.

In June this year I followed a gradual night weaning process, which took 2 months, and reached a stage where on most nights he would be happy with only 1 scheduled feed. I haven't managed to get rid of that feed yet, and actually after holidays, teething, etc, I am now feeding him twice per night plus around 6 am...but as I have said, I am thinking of night weaning although I know it will make him unhappy.

But my answer to their question - why do it - would be that a very tired mum (and wife) may not be as good as as a rested one. Plus there may be work commitments which are hard to get out of.

The next question is when it is acceptable to do it. I would not have liked to night wean too early, but now I feel that although he is still very much in need of comforting, he also understands a lot more of what I explain to him. That doesn't mean I don't feel very very guilty when he cries at night and it takes ages to settle him without bf-ing.

gemma - I see what you mean, I was just really surprised that nobody had tried it, simply because I don't know anyone else that still feeds in the night, breastfeeding or not! Its going to take a bit of getting used to, that huge change in attitude.

I still feel like its the right time for us though, and am glad we have the internet for support too!

ChairmumMiaow - I night weaned DD when she was 10 months old and she had cow milk from a year at night and we have weaned her off that now too (she has water overnight - she still gets thirsty). I did it by when she woke patting her and delaying the time at which she would get milk by ten minutes every few nights (it took ages) till eventually we got to a reasonable hour (ie 5am) and then spontaneously she learned to sleep 12 hours straight a few months later. Night weaning doesn't mean they will sleep through but it does sometimes help IME if they haven't trained themselves to wake at 3:22 for milk every day (as DS has ). He is currently being night weaned and by christmas no doubt I'll get there!

I'm sorry you didn't get what you were hoping for from LLL - I avoided all BF groups because I actually didn't want to talk to anyone about it (don't know why, just felt it was something I did, not a cause IYSWIM) but have found MN very helpful in getting a range of views when I have wanted to ask a question.

This might have been asked before, but I still haven't managed to read through all the thread yet!
If you're still BFing on demand after a year, should you be giving (cow) milk as a drink too? I just tend to give water with meals.

You don't need to give cow milk. I didn't with DSs. Your milk is far better and cow milk won't give them anything you can'T

Hi Jenbot. WoTmania correctly said you don't need to give cow's milk.

However, if the baby accepts an alternative to your milk (for perhaps just one feed a day or even just a few sips) it can perhaps help if you need to leave them with someone else.

I didn't manage to get my ds to accept anything (he was allergic to cow's milk so I've tried really hard all sorts of options, hypoallergenic formula, soya milk, rice milk, oat milk etc with not much luck) and this became a bit of an issue when I had to leave him with a childminder or with someone else.

It's much less of an issue now that he's 22 months as he can go for a whole day without any kind of milk, plus he's outgrown his cow's milk allergy (thanks to bf?). With hundsight, I probably should not have worried so much about this, and tried so hard....

But this issue may emerge again soon, when I try to leave him for 2 nights because of an imminent business trip. I can't face expressing as much milk as would be needed for 2 days, honestly, so I don't know what's going to happen. I guess he'll drink water instead, and eat more food, but I am a bit worried about it as he is still very reliant on my milk, especially now he's teething.

So my humble opinion is that even if it's not strictly necessary, it's better to try to introduce some cow's milk (even if it's just a few sips a day, as bf babies won't be very interested in it and rightly so) just in case, and to avoid the hassle of EBM. But that's just me and I am sure plenty other breastfeeding women will disagree - and the reality is that there is no right or wrong really and it largely depends on your specific circumstances and whether they baby accepts it anyway.

Hope this answers your question...?

Gemmamc, very interested in your situation as it seems very similar to mine. Basically I had a hard time bf my ds when he was very little but having persevered with a lot of support and encouragement from longer term bf friends it just seems to be the right thing to do for him. But he's now 22 months and like you, I feel that maybe (?) I should have some say in when we feed and when we don't, but it's a hard path to tread.
Mawbroon - it was me using the words 'giving in', not the LLL book, which I found really helpful. What I meant was that it's made me far more lenient about bf whenever my son needs it, because it had a load of positive info about how important extended bf is. I agree totally with your point (or whoever made it, am a bit addled now), that I do think it is more a question of 'need' than 'want', so thinking in terms of thier 'demands' is not really helpful?.Some months ago (memory a little shot here) we were down to bf morns and eves, and night times. But then he got more inclinded to bf at random times in the day, which led me to a point where I REALLY needed to curtail the night times. Having tried this about a million times before with no success, it was reading support here (yes indeed!) that encouraged me to give it another go, with some initial success, but as previously discussed, an ongoing need to watch my back (well, my front, in truth!). However, he seems to be ongoingly keen to bf at several points in the day, though this is often, I think, for comfort and security, if something a bit unsettling happens. But why not? Or maybe my slight success at nightweaning has made me more receptive to daytime requests. Can't tell for sure.

Back to Gemma - I do also give my ds drinks of cows milk, or soya in the eves and morns as well as lengthy bf. He seems to swap between the two without any real concern. It does mean I can leave him occassionally with my parents overnight and he's fine. Found expressing a palava and gave it up when he got to 1. Interested in any other views on this.

Bouncing T, loved your comments about loveliness of snuggling up with small fella v his old man. Hahaha, same in my house!

Yes to clarify: you don't need to give but milk but can if you want/need to.
I'm in no way saying you shouldn't.

Picklemumma, yes it sounds like we are in a similar situation, apart from the fact my ds doesn't take any other milk and I worry a lot about leaving him (just last night I had a dream that I successfully managed to leave him with my mum in order to go on my business trip....except I can't really do that as she's in Italy but never mind).

I had almost managed to night wean before the holidays and the thing that really struck me is that once we cut down the number of night feeds, he suddenly stopped wanting to bf so much during the day too, without me trying in any way. This seems different from picklemumma's experience I guess.

I had not made a particular effort, because the nights were the priority - but I must say that frequent daytime feeds can be a real problem because while I don't mind taking a break at home and relaxing on the sofa....it does stop me going places with him. (I stopped bf in public about 2-3 months ago because it was an impossible task. I don't care too much what people think, although he looks older than his age and I've definitely noticed some curious looks, but my real worry is the way he comes on and off leaving me exposed, and pulls my T-shirt up and down, etc.

Since the holidays I resumed night feeds to avoid him screaming his head off in the hotel room, and day feeds to avoid major tantrums - yes I deliberately call them so because I have to come to the conclusion that sometimes - not always of course - that's what they are...even if there's milk involved...because he sounds and behaves exactly the same way he does when I deny him something else, like buying him a toy truck every time he sees one in a shop, etc).

So I haven't read the LLL book but I must say I that in the case of my ds I would not deny him a feed if he hurt himself, or is clearly teething. BUT sometimes I get the impression he feeds frequently just because....he can. And I do think at this point in his life I need to start teaching him that he can't always have instant gratification in life, not even with breastfeeding.

Now he is back to feeding frequently during the day and twice at night plus as soon as he wakes up which can be quite early. I am exhausted again, and as I've said I need to prepare for this trip. So I'll be cutting down feeds over the coming weeks, and in my case it seems that saying no during the day is also part of the equation, so he can learn to understand that there are limits.

I think this is probably very different from the LLL philosophy and I hope this doesn't upset anyone. BUt having read the "Womanly Art of Breasfteeding" I have to say I didn't find it very helpful on the "feeding too much issue" because it just seemed to suggest I am not doing enough things to keep him busy and happy, and that I should try not to sit down as much. I think I am doing lots of things actually (despite my fear of going places as he may go on major tantrums if I don't feed him precisely when and where he wants.....), but still he wants more. And I can't NOT sit on the sofa as I am exhausted most of the time!

So - sorry for rambling on but I think that although it's clear the milk is a need and not a want, there are times when I think the boundary is confused and it's really important for me to say no.

Gemma - this is a really pertinent issue for me as it seems to be all one way or the other - either we stop BF (as most do) or we let them have milk whenever possible.

I do feel that although DS is still tiny and does, at times, need his milk, we have been doing this for a long time and I think my needs and wants can have a bit more priority than they have done, some of the time.

DS did stay at his auntie's last night and he was apparently a little angel. Asleep around half 8 with no fuss, a couple of minor wakeups and no fuss in the morning, which means DH and I have the freedom to go on a weekend course together which we have been contemplating!

Please can I join? I am on day one of being an extended breastfeeder I am in no hurry to wean and DD is a boob-monster and doesn't eat much food yet. My mum has been hassling me to quit for a while now and today arrived home from five days in France and asked whether I'd weaned yet. Er, five or more feeds a day + more at night to none at all in five days? That'll be a no.

I really don't understand her issue, as she bfed three of us (two to five months or so, one for a year) and she gets irritated with people who are anti-bf

DD had cut down slightly but has been going to a childminder two mornings a week as I'm back at work, and has bumped her feeds back up. I see no reason to stop something which gives her so much comfort and pleasure, plus I'm not confident that she eats enough to get what she needs from solid food yet. Grr!

Sorry for the essay and erm hello

My mother asked me if i'm going to wean DS2. Apparently it's harder to wean boys , (she knows this because a whole 1 of her friends had trouble weaning her son). She really thinks it's long enough now.
The main problem is the he doesn't want to.
I informed her that I'm going to let him self wean .
Gah!
Hardly anyone else I know has a problem with me still feeding DS2. Maybe I should leave a copy of mothering your nursing toddler laying around.

WoT I think my mum's main objection is that her neighbour found it very hard to wean at three, so I should stop now and save us both the heart ache Again, based on just one child. On the plus side, her neighbour has a DD, so that knocks your mum's theory into a cocked hat

Yup, I think she doesn't realise that whenever I decide to make him wean it will be hard. If hoever I let him decide and just go with it it'll be easy.
And some of the children I know who've nursed longest have been girls.

Welcome Dita
Have been away from screen here for a week or so, still wrangling with that old 'night weaning' chestnut. I reckon I can now suggest that DS is night weaned if he doesn't actually wake up. Otherwise, we're still having a battle. And other than that, I foolishly decided to raise with him the possibility that he might one day not wish to drink mummy milk anymore (probably when he's about 93). This caused him to refuse to drink any cow's milk for a couple of days,(he has some of this as an extra, sometimes drinks lots, sometimes v little) instead, shaking his head and poking me in the boob 'No! Mummy!'. So that's me told. Hope all's well with everyone else