Anyone else prepared to admit that they didn't b/f just because they didn't want to ??

[IllegallyBrunette]

Just wondered really.

I have 3 dc and didn't breast feed any. I was 19 when I had dd1 and was asked by a midwife if i'd be breastfeeding and I said no. There was no argument or discussion, that was that.

When I had dd2 at 34 weeks she had to be tube fed. I offered to express milk for her but was told i needn't bother.

With ds, again I didn't want to but even if I had it would have been hard as he was supposed to be on phototherapy 24/7 for a week.

I think the attitude towards ff mums on this forum by some bf mums is disgusting. I would never dream of saying anything against any mum for feeding her baby by whichever way she chooses, yet some of the comments on here like 'formula should only be available if there is a proven medical need' are just awful.

No sorry I don't accept that - lack of support for breastfeeding may lead to that - not the breastfeeding itself.

Got to go get on with mummy stuff now - back later

Northerlurker, I agree that lack of support is very central. What kind of support are you referring to btw? Family support? (that's important too for a bf-ing mother, and sadly lacking often in big cities) Breastfeeding-counsellor support? (also important, but I feel family / friend support is ultimately more central). I believe that one of the problems with breastfeeding- at least speaking from my own experience- is that babies tend to feed more often- sometimes through the night- leading to less sleep for the mother. Also, I feel that breastfeeding is tiring in itself, i.e. a bf-ing mother needs to look after herself, drink plenty of fluids, eat well etc in order to feel ok. Anyway, that's how I see it. I may be wrong and some bf-ing mothers may sleep a huge amount & feel completely energized. But my hunch is that that's not the case for the majority. And if support is lacking, and also if the tiredness & lack of energy gets unbearable, then perhaps continued breastfeeding stops being the best choice for the particular mother/baby dyad.

Breastfeeding mothers dont really have to look after themselves, eat well and drink lots of fluids. Really, they don't. Of course they should in the same way that mothers who formula feed should.

Hercules1: well I disagree, I really do think breastfeeding takes a lot of energy & bf-ing mothers need to look after themselves even more than formula feeding mothers do. If anything, bf-ing mothers tend to sleep less (as they can't easily control what their babies drink, and so sometimes feeding through the night is unavoidable) & clearly lack of sleep means more care has to be taken. I'm curious though, why do you say they don't need to look after themselves Speaking again from personal experience, every time my DS latches on, I immediately feel very very thirsty, and always ask DP to bring me a glass of water. Surely that's to do with bf-ing?

How on earth do you imagine the human race would have survived? Women have breastfed through wars, famines etc etc without the need for constant mollycoddling and glasses of water on request.

I breastfed for 5 months and did not like it but carried on for the sake of DD. Sometimes I wish I had stopped because as soon as I switched to bottles I felt so much happier but will breast feed again next time, I feel I shoudl at least try.

However I have one friend who has refused both times, she says it is digusting and I don't really mind what she thinks, its her body, her children.

hercules, yes people cope, that doesnt mean they should have to.

Mollycoddling is a luxury which we would should grab with both hands because we are lucky not to be living in (really) difficult times and with partners who are lovely at fetching

I think it is so, so sad that people find it 'disgusting'.

But the mollycoddling is such a recent thing in history and is hardly a world wide thing.
Personally I never went for the whole needing to be mollycoddled breastfeeding mum thing.

I felt huge pressure to bf; hated every moment of it; contributed to PND and inability to bond with baby. After 6 weeks abject misery all round discovered the joy of ff. Happy baby, less glum mum. If I hadn't bought into the 'bf always best for everyone' mantra, would have had a much better start all round. If I were ever fool enough to have another, it wd be ff from the start.

FWIW, I was bf myself; wildly overweight. DS is not.

Hercules: 'needing to be mollycoddled breastfeeding mum'??? Hercules, I think you're being especially provocative & insensitive. Asking for water when thirsty is not mollycoddling. And in any case, what's wrong with being taken care of? Especially in the vulnerable period after birth. Regarldess of whether breastfed through famines wars etc in the past (and by the way, women & babies died in birth & soon after birth in huge numbers in the past, so lets not go to the past for arguments about what's happening now), I feel there's a big difference between needing some support after birth & during bf-ing & wanting to be mollycoddled.

In my case, I'm quite sure that age played a part in how easy bf was or wasn't. I had no mollycoddling or support either time (in very different circs, 6.5 years apart), but when I did it at 33, it worked fine and the baby thrived. When I did it at 40, it didn't go well and they baby did not thrive. I was under immense pressure from fairly catastrophic "life events" both times, but the second time my body just refused to function as well as the first time. Perhaps the fact that often the mothers that choose to bf are older means that they experience bf as being something draining (when for younger mums it is not). Just wonderin'...

And by the way what you said-'the need for constant mollycoddling & glasses of water on request'- reinforces this whole idea of women as warriors, martyrs, who will do anything for their child, at all cost, and they won't b*&&%y well ask for any help, so there. If they're thirsty, they'll just continue being thirsty, because they're the mothers and they have to sacrifice constantly, that's what motherhood is about.

For god's sake...

NotBigJustBolshy: yes, perhaps age plays a role... I certainly have much less energy at 35 than I remember having at 25. Since I had my first baby last summer (at 35), and since I'm finding bf-ing a wonderful experience but also very draining at times, I would assume that yes, age plays a part in this.

How on earth does that reinforce a warrior myth ? My point is it is perfectly possible to breastfeed without all the things you think need to be in place.

OK, hercules, I think I explained my point as best I could. If you're not convinced, that's fine, no problem. I just think that it's possible to bf without all the things you think need to be in place, yes, but it's definitely much easier to have those things in place.

I think that Custardo and Quatro put up great posts, I'll add my tuppennies worth

I bf my dd, I did feel under pressure to do so because even if you take out the controversial obesity and iq research it is best for mother and baby, I wanted to do what was best for my health and my babies.

I noticed that lots of people asked how I fed dd when she was little, and 9 times out of 10 they would say 'oh aren't you good, I couldn't bf because..' They felt guilty which is a shame, and they wanted to bf, but didn't have the support which is scandalous really. I was lucky I didn't have too many problems but the mw at the hospital were very very busy, and hearing a happy ff baby glugging away when my dd struggled for the first few hours was upsetting.

I found the first few weeks hard work, I was tired and dd wasn't latching well so I was sore and watching those bloody sma knows adverts made me think, gosh that looks easier, my mum wanted me to have ff in the house just incase, which is what she did and why she stopped bfing me after a few weeks.

Anyway (sorry this is so long) I didn't sleep and neither does my dd, my mum was up every two hours, spending and hour getting me back to sleep for 2 years, but I co-sleep, dd wakes, she latches on, we both go back to sleep it is much much easier than ff would have been and I am soo glad I kept with the bf, it is best for my family. When dd was about 4mo there was a lot of advice to early wean and to switch to ff to get her to sleep and there is a real myth that ff helps babies sleep, I really don't think there is any evidence that that works.

So in summeray, I think that often ff looks like the easy option but I really believe that in the long run bf is much much easier.

Yes, it is also much easier to formula feed if you have those things in place too. But you can formula feed still without them.

I've bf 9 children. My first, I was 27yo and my 9th I was almost 44yo. No difference imo.
Having a baby, having a baby and other children was tiring. I didn't feel that the bf-ing had any effect on my energy levels and I didn't feel that my age had any effect on my bf-ing ability.
My first baby I fed for 3m and then bottle fed as I went back to work fulltime.
My last baby I bf for 15m.

Just my experience, of course.

I ff dd1 [5] due to lack of support.

Dd2 6mths was almost exclusively fed until 5mths.

I wanted to feed her myself, for no other reason than I was determined to try it as I had 'failed' with dd1. Not that that bothered me [that I couldn't feed her]. She is fine, thriving, seems none the worse for it.

However, nothing prepared me for the side effects of feeding dd2.

• Mastitus
• Low supply
• Fast let down that led her to choke & refuse to feed. Which led me not to feed in public because because if she came off it was like letting a tap run
• Refusal to feed
• No let down/slow let down
• Sensativity to foods I ate [everyone told me it was crap that they react to foods via bm]

The first time she refused to feed was 7pm. She was about 3 months. She just wouldn't latch. Trying & trying did nothing except stress me, so I couldn't even express, nothing came. Had no expressed in reserve as I only expressed if/when I was too engorged. Why would I have reserves? She screamed from 7pm to 2am. Keeping me, dh & dd1 awake.

I could do NOTHING. I didn't have formula in the house, such was my determintaion to feed her myself. I kept trying over & over & over to feed her, to express...but each effort was met with screaming & fists flying! Both dd2 & I were in tears! I had to shut us in her room so my dh & dd could [try to] get to sleep for work/school.

I refused to drive the shops & get formula as I just didn't want to go down that route. Dh had been drinking otherwise he would have gone to get some, I know he would. What made her sleep [for 2 hours] eventually at about 2am was cooled water. Dh convinced me to try it. It fooled her into thinking that she had eaten & she slept for a couple of hours. In that time I managed to relax & express a few Oz. As soon as she woke, she took the breast fine.

The next day, I brought formula. She didn't refuse to feed until about a week later & she guzzled the formula like I had been starving her. She had probably less than a bottle a week until she self weaned at 5 months.

I remember saying to dh at that time 'it's no wonder people ff' Breastfeeding for me was far from the romantic, idealistic bonding experience that I was lead to believe it was.

To think that some women have that kind of experience from the off is awful! I always said that if dd didn't take to it, started to refuse etc I wouldn't kill myself & her trying to make it work. I know women who have been to hell & back to persist in feeding as they believed 'breast is best'. Or in some cases, breast is the only thing!

I often wonder how you bond with your baby when your experience is as bad as what I went thru that one time with dd2.

So to me, choice is everything. Would I bf again? Not sure tbh. I certainly think I would have that tin of formula to prevent an episode like I had with dd2. Not that it is a huge issue anyway, as I am not having anymore.

I am actually pleased that I didn't feed dd1, as if I had experienced that as a first time mum it would have had detrimental affects on me, as my pregancy & birth was less than ideal [crash section, GA due to PE & feotal distress] & I know I wouldn't have coped as I couldn't even come to term with the birth until a yr later.

I am still shocked that in this still male dominated world, where us mums can seem to do no right....

[Disclaimer, these are examples, I do not believe in any of these scenarios

SAHM - bad influence, children need to learn responsibility, going to work etc

WAHM - Bad, either work or raise children, not both

WOHM - Terrible, you can't have children AND work & make them go into childcare

Using Childcare - Nooooo! Bad for the children

Not using chilcare - Not encouraging them to be away from you]

...we are STILL beating each other up about our feeding choices! It stinks! It's stupid! Let's get over it & support each other as we should, cause lets face it....no one else is on our side! We may as well have each other!

Ah well, juuule, you were probably a lot younger and fresher at 43 than I was at 40 - am now nearly 44 and am shrivelled old bag. I know the party line is that stress, age etc should have no effect on the ability to bf (heard it often enough from bf counsellors at the time), but the fact was that I bf successfully for 2 years the first time around, but not the second - and I can't see what else would have had that effect on my milk supply. I kept it going for 2 years the 2nd time as well, but had to mix feed from about 16 weeks, despite my absolute best efforts. I found the various bf counsellors to be worse than useless, just going on endlessly about the "evils of ff". I could have done without the guilt trip, given what else I was having to deal with at the time.

Maria, that argument that if you breastfeed you need to eat well and need to keep up fluids etc....well, it really doesn't stand....all mums need or should do that...but, it is not vital to succesful bf.

Also, I didn't, personally, felt that bf used so much enegy and left me more tired...tbh, the whole bottle malarky was what really got to me when I switched from bf to ff with es...but, I am a naturally very lazy person

As for sleeping...as I co-slept, I generally didn't feel that I was lacking on sleep all that much....of course there were times I was tired, but tbh, again, the whole malarky of nightfeeds with ff was far more hassle than just putting the Kiddo on the boob...but maybe that was, because es, even when ff still regularly woke in the night...

Notbigjustbolshy - I'm not sure what affects bf-ing. I'm sure some things do. Maybe a combination of things. I know I struggled to bf my 6th baby. I have no idea why. I just know that I never seemed to have enough milk for her. A number of times I nearly gave up because I thought it wasn't good for me or the baby.

7th baby came along and followed the same pattern as for my others with bf-ing.

So, contrary to my previous post, I think I'm agreeing with you here that different things can affect bf-ing, age, stress, etc or any combination of.

Lol at me being young and fresh at 43 if only

Maria, where is the evidence - not anecdote, or your opinion or observation or feeling, but evidence - that breastfeeding itself is more likely than formula feeding to lead to an increase in depression or stress or other negative emotional/mental effects in the mother?

I read you are a psychologist. You will have access to research, and, one would hope, a healthy respect for well-conducted studies.

Mothers' experiences in the early months of infant feeding can indeed be part of depression and so on. If they feel they are not doing a good job, or they feel guilty, or don't get the right sort of positive feedback from their babies....of course this can be associated with depression. But breastfeeding that's going well, and formula feeding that's going well, do not have these bad effects.

You say yourself that if the mum feels ok about breastfeeding then these effects are not going to happen. So lets help breastfeeding mothers feel ok, then, shall we? By ensuring good practical skills are passed on, that problems are quickly dealt with before they become insurmmountable, so mothers can do the normal, physiological 'thing' that actually most want to do.