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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Anyone else prepared to admit that they didn't b/f just because they didn't want to ??

650 replies

IllegallyBrunette · 02/01/2009 19:46

Just wondered really.

I have 3 dc and didn't breast feed any. I was 19 when I had dd1 and was asked by a midwife if i'd be breastfeeding and I said no. There was no argument or discussion, that was that.

When I had dd2 at 34 weeks she had to be tube fed. I offered to express milk for her but was told i needn't bother.

With ds, again I didn't want to but even if I had it would have been hard as he was supposed to be on phototherapy 24/7 for a week.

I think the attitude towards ff mums on this forum by some bf mums is disgusting. I would never dream of saying anything against any mum for feeding her baby by whichever way she chooses, yet some of the comments on here like 'formula should only be available if there is a proven medical need' are just awful.

OP posts:
oneyummymummy · 08/01/2009 16:33

It does make sense, but I know what you mean about brain not functioning properly....I have the same prob at the moment, and feel my posts are just ramblings that all the way around the point but don't get it spot on.IYKWIM

DrowningInClutter · 08/01/2009 18:14

OYM - I find your point about mothers on hard drugs producing unhealthy breastmilk rather odd as most heroin addicts (for example) would not be capable of FF either. Money for formula would be likely to be spent on drugs, sterilizing and correct measuring would be beyond their capabilities while high or withdrawing. It just seems an odd argument to use in a discussion about BFing as there are many other parenting issues here?

Apologies if I've offended any heroin addicts on the thread

tittybangbang · 08/01/2009 18:31

a) all we do is based - to a large extent - on cultural assumptions anyway

But not breastfeeding. That's based on a physiological reality and on instinct. Almost all women lactate. Almost all babies have the instinct to go to the breast after birth. Artificial feeding is the culturally based intervention and breastfeeding is the biological 'default mode'.

b) we often have to do stuff they don't like anyway

Well - yes. But the fact that 90% of babies in this country over a few weeks old are permanently stopped from engaging in what in actuality is physiologically normal and instinctive behaviour is really on a whole different level than babies being occasionally left to cry or immunised immunisation.

"But - and here's the rub - just because I do these things doesn't make me a better mother"

Well - no! I'm wondering why you're saying this. Has anyone implied that parenting your child in this way makes you a better parent? Haven't read the whole thread so can't be sure if I've missed something.

All that said - some parents are more responsive, more patient and more 'child focused' than others. I can't personally get my head round the 'we all love our children equally therefore all different ways of parenting are equally 'good' for babies' ethos that seems to reign supreme on parenting boards. It kind of leaves you in a sort of meaningless swamp really. And re: your baby not being happier than other babies. Well you don't know, do you? The current research seems to suggest that babies who are parented responsively do grow up happier and more secure than babies who are parented in less child centred ways.

Gavlaar · 08/01/2009 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

welliemum · 08/01/2009 20:32

Gavlaar at your rudeness to tiktok.

tiktok has been posting on MN for several years. In that time she's shown herself to be immensely knowledgeable, sensitive to the emotional problems of feeding a baby, and with the patience of a saint.

Over the years I've seen her help countless mothers, whether ff-ers or bf-ers. I'm one of them.

She is fantastic and she really knows her onions.

And your mumsnet track record is?

Gavlaar · 08/01/2009 20:39

ah so i'm not allowed to react to negative comments unless i've posted on here for years?

strange.

oh and you need to find some manners yourself tik tok although apparently you can say what you like, you've got your cronies to defend you. nice.

AnarchyAunt · 08/01/2009 20:44

Gavlaar you are rude.

If you have a coherent point regarding infant feeding I'm sure tiktok (and others) will engage with that.

But please don't just throw negativity at those who devote huge amounts of time to help mothers and babies on MN.

welliemum · 08/01/2009 20:48

Actually, no, Gavlaar, you can post what you like but people who make personal attacks don't have much credibility here.

I sense you're making personal attacks because you've run out of arguments, which is never a good idea.

Am not a crony of tiktok's - just one of hundreds that have learned an enormous amount from reading her posts. tiktok's more than able to take care of herself in a discussion and is in no need of protection from the likes of me.

So let's hear your refutation of her points then.

madmouse · 08/01/2009 20:50

Gavlaar please apologise for your language. There is no need to compare people to animals on here

StealthPo09IsHere · 08/01/2009 20:53

Gavlaar, I think tiktok was asking you not to provide misleading advice to vulnerable new mothers.
Perfectly reasonable IMO and you are showing yourself up on this thread

oneyummymummy · 08/01/2009 21:37

DIC I keep repeating the same comment over and over, please read back through the thread so that you can understand where this conversation has come from.....

The message from gavlaar has been deleted so I'm not sure what was said, but it doesn't sound like a helpful comment, from the response it got.

tiktok · 08/01/2009 23:50

Blimey - I wonder what on earth she said!! I have just opened the thread and seen the message has been deleted, so thanks to whoever alerted MN towers about it. Compared me to an animal, eh? Bad language, eh? There's insightful and intelligent for you

Gavlaar is, I think, a poster formally called LaVie (when she also had a message deleted because of rudeness, I believe) or sometimes LaVieenRose, and on another thread she gave some unhelpful (though I am sure well-intended) suggestions to a mother, and then objected bitterly and unplesantly when I pointed this out (I was polite but I got a bit ruffled when she vented her spleen at me).

She can kiss my cotton pickin arse

tiktok · 09/01/2009 00:01

Oh, and it's coming back to me - I think she accused me of reporting the rude message, when I didn't.

She's such a cross patch!

moondog · 09/01/2009 00:04

at Tiktok's cotton picking' ass!

KristinaM · 09/01/2009 00:12

tiktok - i think you are right that the emphasis on " healthy eating" by FF manufacturers puts some mums off Bf. I have often been told by frineds who knwo i am still bf

" oh i would love to have bf / still bf but i coudln't give up alcohol / chocolate / coffee for so long"

They are genuinely shocked when i tell them that i still have all these things while bf. probably off phoning social services about me........

moondog · 09/01/2009 00:15

Yes, assumption that ot breastfeed you have to be in a state of semi permanent grace which is crap.As have often said, Chablis got me through first hellish weeks..

AnnVan · 09/01/2009 01:09

Also the assumption that you have to live off bland food while bf.

Maria2007 · 09/01/2009 08:06

Kristina (and the others) I'm also constantly told by many people that 'ok, breastmilk is good, but if you don't eat /avoid this that or the other formula is actually better'. I have found all the info on this topic (discussed on this thread) very very useful! And it makes total sense to me that formula companies would spread this misinformation, as it's definitely in their best interest to present bf as somehow very difficult to maintain. Personally, I do drink tea, I have alcohol (wine) once in a while, and I certainly don't even think twice about eating chocolate I can't see how this has affected my bf.

The main point that I've taken from this thread (and thanks everyone, it has been fantastically informative!) is that in a way it's a no win situation! On the one hand, I truly want to be supportive of every mother's right to choose what's best for herself & her children, in her own particular circumstances. On the other hand, I believe bf is largely misunderstood in our culture, and I would like to be able to help a tiny bit in correcting some of these misunderstandings. At the same time, I want to be able to defend my choice to bf, & not to accept friends' comments such as 'nowadays formula & breast milk is almost the same'. How can this be done in a good, friendly way? How can I respond to comments such as 'are you STILL breastfeeding'? To be honest, I have no answer...

belgo · 09/01/2009 08:15

Maria - a very intelligent friend told me recently that formula milk is the same as breastmilk. I just nodded my head and didn't say anything - what should I have said? It's a difficult situation as it's such an emotive subject.

Maria2007 · 09/01/2009 08:28

Belgo, good question, what should you have said... I too have no answer. I find it very hard when I'm in that type of situation (and by the way, I've been told the same thing by a couple of friends / relatives). Especially the 'nowadays formula is so improved that it's basically as good as breast milk' thing gets to me.... and usually I just nod my head & act as if I agree, when in fact I don't.

belgo · 09/01/2009 08:37

It's hard to see misinformation being perpetuated, but it's even harder to discuss without getting into an arguement and upsetting people. I remember a colleague got very annoyed with me when I said that my bf baby hadn't been ill yet - she seemed to think I was commenting on how she had fed her baby.

Maria2007 · 09/01/2009 08:40

The other thing is, by agreeing, I'm kind of undermining my own struggle to bf, because it hasn't come easily to me, and obviously I've been doing it & struggling on because it has some meaning to me. When I agree with such comments, it then becomes puzzling why on earth I continue to struggle in order to bf, if I believe they are the same. I'm not some kind of martyr, I do it becomes it means something to me, & because I have certain beliefs. How do I get that message across & communicate clearly, without being offensive?

Maria2007 · 09/01/2009 08:42

Obviously I meant to say I do it BECAUSE it means something to me...

SleepMeNot · 09/01/2009 09:04

I am still bf 14 month old, and have heard all the same things about formula being the same as/even better than bm. Mainly my friends/relatives think Aptamil is different from every other formula, is 'more like' breastmilk, and is even better than breastmilk because it contains added extras and doesn't depend on mother's diet (I am quoting here - this isn't my opinion).

I don't want to offend, and I do believe it is every woman's choice how she feeds, and I am not sure to what extent people actually believe the above or whether they convince themselves of it to make themselves feel better for not breastfeeding. In any case I think probably a bf mother is possibly not the best person to tell a ff mother that formula is not the same as bm for the reasons Maria gives. But I would like to know why Aptamil is seen as so different from other formula (the awful advert, one presumes, that seems to say that when the baby hits 6 months, you should stop bf and start the bm substitute Aptamil, and the expensive price ticket that implies quality?).

Maria2007 · 09/01/2009 09:14

SleepMeNot- interesting about aptamil I've heard the exact same things about aptamil, and when we started (about 3 weeks ago) offering DS one bottle of formula for his 11 o'clock feed every evening, I made a huge fuss that it was to be aptamil as I'd heard it was 'the closest to breastmilk!' Fascinating how even we bf mothers fall for this kind of advertising...

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