Anyone else prepared to admit that they didn't b/f just because they didn't want to ??

[IllegallyBrunette]

Just wondered really.

I have 3 dc and didn't breast feed any. I was 19 when I had dd1 and was asked by a midwife if i'd be breastfeeding and I said no. There was no argument or discussion, that was that.

When I had dd2 at 34 weeks she had to be tube fed. I offered to express milk for her but was told i needn't bother.

With ds, again I didn't want to but even if I had it would have been hard as he was supposed to be on phototherapy 24/7 for a week.

I think the attitude towards ff mums on this forum by some bf mums is disgusting. I would never dream of saying anything against any mum for feeding her baby by whichever way she chooses, yet some of the comments on here like 'formula should only be available if there is a proven medical need' are just awful.

Maria, I'd have a real problem not correcting her tbh but then I'm a pedantic git, and have never had anybody say that to me.
It is very difficult, when somone tells me they stopped breastfeeding after three weeks because it hurt and that means you're doing it wrong, what can I say to that? I just said 'it can be hard'. But if I said 'oh yes, my nipples kept peeling and DS was slow to gain and I was feeding almost constantly, but we got there in the end' would that be considered criticism? Because I can't talk to anyone in RL about my experiences without feeling that either it will come across as a criticism, or be considered ridiculous because 'formula is as good as bf'.
I too genuinely would like to know the reasons why mothers choose to ff from birth, as it would help me understand these mothers better. I could never ask my SIL for instance, she already thinks I'm a kook because DS doesn't drink juice and we do BLW and cloth nappies etc.

NJB - this is the thread you mean and you mean me ('clearly a control freak') and you are MrsBates and I claim my £5!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=breast_and_bottle_feeding&threadid=606542-can-breastfeeding-really-cure -all#12395781

I suggested hiding the thread if it upset you - it's one option available for people who are unable to resist taking general discussions about formula/breastfeeding as a comment on their own situation if they are still feeling raw about it.

A control freak? Moi?

I wasn't trying to suggest it was an advantage of formula, just stating that we couldn't compare them with out all the information. I really think you are not understanding the point I am trying to make here.

We can't 'compare' ff and bf, OYM??

Because we don't know exactly what is in them??

Eh?

Ok - we dont and cant ever know exactly what's in every type of formula and every individual mother's breastmilk.

And this means we cannot compare them?

Hey - I've got a great idea! How about comparing the effects of ff and bf? That way we can look at the health outcomes of thousands and thousands of babies, record how they were fed, take into account their socio-economic backgrounds and all that sorta shit, and compare ff and bf that way?

Wouldn't that be cool?

Do you think I should take this utterly brilliant and totally new idea to the Cochrane database, to NICE, to the WHO, to the institute of evidence-based medicine, to the academic journals?

Or would they tell me that this approach is not new at all, and has indeed been going on for decades and is the basis of much infant feeding research already?

tiktok now thats just being silly isn't it! Comparng the ingreidents goes back to the convo about what mothers 'may' be feeding thier children in BM.
and I am NOT refering to the research, but to the convo on here.

Being rude must come naturally to you.

If you took the time to read all of the posts you would see that we were talking about mothers taking drugs/drinking/smoking etc.... that is what the comment refers to. And obviously the research would be diffrent in this case and the out-come would also not be the same.

Has anyone actually answered the op's question yet??

Too much posting for me to read through now

I have been thinking about this one for a couple of days now....and i think for me with the first 4 it was because after carrying for 9 months i just wanted some of the responsibility to be shifted to DP and wanted sleep, all very selfish but all them years ago...and being very young i never thought much of it. My mum didn't help saying it is much easier to ff

I did bf no.4 but had to make myself as the feelings of wanting to beastfeed never came naturally for me. I did it for over a year and loved it. Lots of advantages to it but unfortunatley ds has lots of heakth things going wrong for him and none for the others.

Went on to have 2 sets of twins, tried bf for a few days but in the end the twins were having more blood than milk and with all the others to stress about it was easier to switch to ff.m With 2nd set didn't even try as i felt let down by not being able to with other set.

Some mums just have more feelings to breast feed than others...and to look around lots of children that have been ff look fine and healthy so people are always going to see that. It does not mean that they want any less for their children.

"I think that - for all its attractiveness in some respects - tittybangbang's attempt to see things from a baby's p.o.v. is just not workable."

OK - as a mum I choose to go back to work or choose to stay at home with my baby. What influences my choice? I think about my needs and my family's needs. I think about how my baby will feel about being cared for by someone other than me. I go to visit nurseries and childminders and think about the different sort of care they provide, and whether my baby will be as happy and fulfilled in care than at home with me. I think about what the reality of my baby's day to day life will be without me. I take it into account when I am making a decision about what to do.

Can you explain why I shouldn't apply the same process of analysis when I am thinking of choosing how I'm going to feed my baby for the first year of his or her life? Why shouldn't I think about what the milk tastes and smells like and the differences in a physical sense of how my baby will feed? experience of breastfeeding myself? Why is it impractical and - according to some people here, unreasonable?

TBH I'm actually quite offended at the idea that we shouldn't consider what feeding is like emotionally and physically for babies when we are making a choice. I'm saddened that so many people on this thread find it bizarre or 'wrong'.

Why is it that when it comes to food the only sector of society whose aesthetic needs are disregarded are infants? Maybe we should start doing the same for people with severe learning difficulties or those with dementia who can't speak up for themselves. Give them Complan instead of fresh food for every meal. Much easier for their care-givers, and who cares what the experience of eating is like if a) it'll give them the same basic nutrients as real food and b) they can't complain.

Honestly - all I was arguing for was a change in focus when it comes to making a choice, to one that at least acknowledges that a baby's experience of feeding as well as the mother's deserves serious thought and consideration.

OYM: "Being rude must come naturally to you."

No - I have to work at it, and I did think I was being sarky rather that out and out rude, sorry

"If you took the time to read all of the posts you would see that we were talking about mothers taking drugs/drinking/smoking etc.... that is what the comment refers to."

I know....doesn't make any difference because it is outcomes that matter, in the end.

" And obviously the research would be different in this case and the out-come would also not be the same."

Not necessarily 'obviously' ...too much to go into here, but you're making assumptions that don't always hold water.

bellasmama - You say you hated breastfeeding. This is the point I'm trying to make on this thread that no-one seems to be answering. When you have a baby, things no longer revolve around you, but your baby's needs should take priority.

This is what annoys me on this thread. People talk about choice, but it's choice on the mother's part; the baby doesn't get a say in the matter, do they?

[I'm not, for the record, talking about people who try to breastfeed and lack support etc but those who FF from the outset]

When I had DD I wasn't terribly thrilled by the fact that she work up frequently and didn't sleep through the night until she was 3 years old. Nonetheless, I didn't ignore her cries because I wanted some peace and quiet - her needs were put before mine.

Similarly, having a DD curtailed my life as it had been to that point and certainly set it on a different path. But you know what, I chose to have my DD so I was damned well going to put my wishes to one side and concentrate on my daughter's as a priority.

So I have huge amounts of admiration for women out there who want to breastfeed and move Heaven and Earth to try to do so - pumping for premature babies, doing everything in their power to boost supply, checking the LO's latch, going to a breastfeeding counsellor and seeking advice at every turn when it probably might be easier to put the baby on the bottle. And I feel huge sympathy for those women who have tried everything they can and yet breastfeeding hasn't worked out for them. I feel lucky too that it worked for me.

But I must confess to judging those women who put their feelings about breastfeeding above the benefits it will give their baby. I think priorities should shift when you're a mother.

RSB I completely agree, a mother should always put the needs of her child before herself....without a doubt.

tiktok I am sure that there is some research out there that would prove that the milk a mother produces on an unhealthy diet/drug taking /drinking smoking etc....would NOT be as good as a mother who doesn't.

ANd it DOES matter in what context you are taking my words out of and using them in....the outcome is not the same.

Just as a side-issue, I see there is still a concurrent use of 'benefits' for breastmilk and 'risks' for formula. I understand the reasons behind the new policy for talking about breastmilk as neutral and formula as 'having risks'. But I think the fact that both systems exist still is part of the reason ff-ers are hurt by the language used. Do you know what I mean?

Personally speaking, I'm more convinced by the idea that breastmilk contains things are good for babies, when considering whether to breastfeed (although I always wanted to breastfeed anyway, I thought it looked like a nice thing to do for the mother - sadly, didn't happen) than by the idea of ff having risks. Because it's easy to come to terms with those risks when you see your baby thriving, as most do. For me, for PR purposes, the idea of breastmilk having benefits is more persuasive.

But I can see from the boards that there is a big push to put it the other way, and this is genuinely just one woman's opinion. I imagine there has been much discussion about it before the notion was introduced.

OYM - you will easily find research to show that the milk of mothers who smoke or use drugs is not 'as good as' the milk of mothers who don't.....the point would not be that, but whether the baby's health would be better if she switched to formula (which is the only practical, appropriate alternative). And with regard to smoking, the baby's health would not be better.

With regard to drugs of abuse, once beyond the withdrawal newborn stage, milk of a heavy drug abuser is not safe, and the baby would indeed be safer on formula.

Again you are taking it out of context. You said that a mother drug taking/smoking etc would not obviously produce worse milk, you said that this was based on assumptions.....well yes the assumptions are just that, that the mother is taking these things! It is YOU that is making the point about switching to formula.

"""""We don't need to know what is in breastmilk, either. There are, if you need them, lists of constituents in the literature, but breastmilk changes with the needs of the baby, so individual milk is different at any one time - this is a good thing! """""

RockinSockBunnies - which matters do babies get a say in? People, most of the time, are doing the best they can for their children, so I guess that makes their babies pretty fortunate and they can have a say about it when they are in therapy years later.

Tiktok - yes I was MrsBates but got fed up with people thinking I was the mother of Master. Why do I have to give you 5 quid? Can't believe you remembered it was you who misunderstood me!

I think it is important to also remember that a mother has to be happy too or cannot do the best for her baby in anyway.

If a mother really doesn't want to, or doesn't like breastfeeding, and becomes miserable as a result then she will not be able to function as a mother at all. I don't believe it is always as simple as putting your child first.

To go back to the OP I will own up as one who never wanted to breatfeed. It didn't feel natural to me as it does to many and it was not an issue I could overcome.

I am lost now,OYM, in your talk of contexts and your use of quotation marks, and other confusing stuff.

Sorry. No doubt my fault for not understanding.

NJB: £5 is a joke - people used to have to ID 'mystery men' in seaside resorts and they got £5 from a newspaper if they did (see 'Brighton Rock' for an example).

I didn't remember you. I searched the archives on my name and 'hide the thread' and found it straight away.

I did this because I am a control freak, or something.

at tiktok. I loves you I do.

My personal experience was that I hated the idea of breastfeeding- not for other people, just for me. The thought of it made me feel physically sick . I decided that I owed it to my DD to try to give her breastmilk for at least a couple of weeks- family history of eczema and asthma, gut problems etc. It felt very odd, but seeing my DD thriving on my milk, I got over my hang-ups and managed to continue for 8 months.

abear, there is something in what you say, but it's not as clear cut as that. Sometimes, mothers really don't like breastfeeding, they are very miserable doing it, and they long to stop.

They still do it because they want to, because they believe they are doing something important for their baby.

It's not right to assume they are then not 'able to function as a mother'....that's very sweeping, and actually quite hurtful to mothers who decide to do it, despite their very negative feelings about it.

combustiblememon, x-posted with you, but you are a good example of what I meant, and I am quite sure you don't want to be thought of as 'not being able to function as a mother'

I have those days