Anyone else prepared to admit that they didn't b/f just because they didn't want to ??

[IllegallyBrunette]

Just wondered really.

I have 3 dc and didn't breast feed any. I was 19 when I had dd1 and was asked by a midwife if i'd be breastfeeding and I said no. There was no argument or discussion, that was that.

When I had dd2 at 34 weeks she had to be tube fed. I offered to express milk for her but was told i needn't bother.

With ds, again I didn't want to but even if I had it would have been hard as he was supposed to be on phototherapy 24/7 for a week.

I think the attitude towards ff mums on this forum by some bf mums is disgusting. I would never dream of saying anything against any mum for feeding her baby by whichever way she chooses, yet some of the comments on here like 'formula should only be available if there is a proven medical need' are just awful.

tiktok - I was trying to make a joke about my own defensiveness about all the things that went 'wrong' when I had my babies NOT tring to attack you

ok, twinmam....sorry I didn't get it!!

Think it is probably my dark sense of humour i.e. may as well give up now - CS, SCBU babies who then weren't bf. I'm like the opposite of an NCT campaign! The good news is that they are doing marvellously, really really thriving - and all my worries about their health and our bond - no skin to skin, separation after birth, etc (those bloody skin to skin posters in hosp used to make me sob!!) have been needless. I am still 100% in favour of bf'ing - I agree with you totally on that - I just think there has to be a huge change in the way it is supported, i.e. less spent on the propaganda (don't mean that in a negative way) and a LOT more spent on the provision of care and support for mums who want to do it. And I don't mean less discussion here I mean by the govt and the health service. It's like in principle they want to get ppl to bf but then in practice not prepared to make an investment in it, both in terms of time and money. Of course my exp may have been different from lots of ppl - I know there are some fab bf counsellors, mentors etc out there - but we need MORE. I will get myself the help I need next time (if there is a next time) but I was just in such a dark bruised place after my dds were born and there just didn't seem to be a mechanism in place to help me do what I desperately wanted to IYSWIM

I'm bf my 3 month old. And in my family that is the norm. I do not judge women who ff, as how do I know what they went through? Many mums have similar experience to Twinman, and try desperately to bf, but because of other circumstances, can't. However, I am always curious about mums who choose not to bf, without ever trying it?
So for some of you mums on here who say you didn't want to bf - why? What put you off the idea/ made you not want to try? And before I'm flamed, this is simply me trying to understand a different viewpoint - in my family bf is just what you do - it's the norm. I also agree with comments about lack of support, I very nearly gave up, as DS couldn't latch properly, we never had skin-to skin etc, and the list of bf counsellors given to me by the hospital - the only one who answered her phone turned out not to be a counsellor any more, but thankfully she heard how desperate I was, and came and helped anyway.

Who gives anyone the right to pass judgement on another mother for how she chooses to feed her child (b-milk or FF, neither is dangerous or life-threatening)? Its not like we are talking about feeding children arsnic, formula feed is an ALTERNATIVE to BF, so if a woman CHOOSES not to BF then her alternative is formula to offer her child the best alternative to not BFeeding. All these theories and statistics are for your own benefit, to make YOURSELF feel better about the decition that YOU chose for YOUR child. It is not anyones right as a mother to force upon another mother their choices and preferences for THEIR own child. We all parent in different ways too, it is not down to one mother to tell another that her way is wrong and yours is right. As mothers we make decitions for our OWN children and do the best we can for them, this does not ALWAYS mean BFeeding.

FTR....I FF, not out of choice but because I had a very traumatic birth and was gravely ill afterwards, BFeeding could have killed me! So was I wrong to put my life before the need for my DD to have BMilk? Where would my DD be today if BFing her for a few days had made me even more ill or who knows what...

I feel I made the best choice in the circumstances given. I am not against BF or FF but feel that a mother knows what is best for herself and her own child. Next time I have every intention of BF but I don't know what life may throw at me next time, and certaintly don't think its anyone elses business to pass judgement on any decition I may make for my own child>

Sorry for the rant

And for the spelling

I wanted to feed dd1 but couldn't, the midwifes gave me no help so was forced to give up. I decided not to feed dd2 after the problems with dd1, my milk never realy came through after having dd2 so im not sure if i would have been able to feed her anyway.

"More generally, I fail to understand what we mean by saying 'looking at it from a baby's perspective'. That is simply not possible. As TityBangBang said, we emphazise, we imagine, we think about what it might be like to be a baby. We try to do that... but we can never, ultimately, see things from a baby's perspective,"

Well, obviously no we can't see something from a baby's perspective, in a literal sense. But that shouldn't stop us from trying!

"However, I do resent the implication that my dc's health - and their relationship with me - is somehow forever doomed because I failed in this most natural of motherly tasks"

Twinmam - I have not said that a baby's health is 'doomed' if they are not breastfed or that their relationship with their mother is bound to be a poor one. You have read this in to my comments.

"However we may not like it- formula feeding is a perfectly accepted & widespread alternative to bf. That's A FACT."

Yes - it is. But I would argue that part of the reason for this is the fact that we are not a child-centred society and we don't value the needs and the experiences of babies enough. TBH I think that manifests itself in all sorts of other ways in the UK and other societies where breastfeeding rates are very low.

Re your example of vegetarianism - again, I can't see the logic of your comparison. Vegetarianism is a cultural choice, not a biological function.

Tiktok - I didn't read the my dcs are 'doomed' thing into your comments at all - sorry if that's what my post suggested. I meant generally that's how a non bf mum can end up feeling, ie that if we haven't given our dcs this opportunity then what hope is there, they are more likely to get diseases, have a lower IQ, etc etc? I feel there is a need to emphasise that bf'ing is part of many things parents can do to give their dcs a good start in life, whilst more importantly, giving mothers all the help and support that is needed to enable them to do it. And again, I'm not talking about this thread or mumsnet in general but in society by health professionals etc.

twinmam, I honestly think that any health promotion that deliberately plays down the importance of breastfeeding by putting it on a par with timely weaning, say, or 'five a day' isn't really helpful to babies or women in the long run. Honestly bf is in a state of crisis in this country. Over one in 4 babies is never put to the breast even once, and the majority of the rest are only bf for a few weeks. I know from where you are sitting the health messages loom very large in your consciousness because of your own difficult experiences with it, but in society as a whole breastfeeding really isn't understood or valued. There are many, many women in this country who become mothers having never seen close up a baby being breastfed in real life, who have literally no experience of it as part of a normal way of bringing up a baby.

StealthPo09IsHere - 'Can someone PLEASE explain to me why people are prepared to accept the link between smoking and ill health but not ff and ill health?? Please!'

I'm sorry, this line has just jumped out at me. How can you possibly compare these two things? I'm not usually offended by statements on MN, but this is ridiculous.

What really annoys me is the "breastfeeding support groups" they hold, I was unable to BF as I was ill for a while after giving birth, this didnt bother me as I didnt think I was going to anyway but why is there no FF support groups out there for all us mums who are made to feel inferiour for FF regardless of the reasons?!

Oneyummymummy

You state that neither breastmilk nor formula is dangerous or life-threatening. Putting aside the fact that the latter, when fed to infants in developing countries without access to clean water is life-threatening and kills thousands of babies per year, even in a country such as the UK, formula still carries risks. Babies suffering from gastic problems are hospitalised as a result of formula feeding.

Stating that formula feeding is an alternative to breastmilk is like comparing kidneys to a dialysis machine - both do the job, but which would you prefer?

Whilst I feel very angry at the state of breastfeeding support in this country and feel lucky that I had access to a good support network, I also ensured that I had done as much research regarding potential difficulties/issues that could arise before I gave birth. I'm sure that many other women also do this and I feel so sorry for those women who have tried everything they can to make a success of breastfeeding, such as pumping around the clock, seeking advice at every turn, checking the latch, going to support groups and trying everything possible to try and make a success of breastfeeding because they know it's the best thing for their baby.

But I still don't understand mothers who do none of that and never even put the baby to the breast, despite knowing the massive benefits. I feel sorry for a baby who is bottle-fed from day one and honestly, I judge a mother who makes that choice.

As I said in my earlier posts, when someone chooses to become a mother, your baby's needs should be paramount. If you feel that breastfeeding is 'icky', 'sexual', 'odd' etc, then do some reading, educate yourself and deal with your issues before you become a mother and put your feelings aside to do the best for your child.

Judgemental rant over

Is that really so - 1 in 4 never put to the breast? It just seems SO out of my own range of experience. Literally every one of my friends who is a mother tried to BF with varying degrees of success. Is it a class/ education thing do you think? That certainly isn't meant to sound patronising or snobby but certainly studies that have linked bf to higher IQs have then been questioned by other studies suggesting this is a correlation - well educated mothers being more likely to bf etc. I wonder if the message is only reaching those who prob would have tried anyway (and making some of them feel very very inadequate but totally accept that's not a reason to promote the benefits!) I really don't think any health promotion ought to downplay the importance of bf (although I still maintain that it is nowhere near the only way of ensuring a healthy child). Also surely healthy diet IS absolutely crucial to children's health? In terms of obesity etc surely it IS on a par with bf? I know you'll say that childhood obesity linked to bf'ing etc, etc and I accept all of that but I can also promise you that it is very unlikely that my dc's will be obese because they are now given and will be given a healthy diet. I feel like I'm repeating myself now and probably am but I'd like to find statistics about women who wanted to bf and gave up because of insufficient support - I fear that would be even higher than 1 in 4. What do people think? What could be done to improve the situation for those struggling with bf'ing? And also what could be done to make people who don't want to more likely to bf?

I agree with you twinmam. There needs to be way more support for mums who are having trouble bf'ing.
At ante-natal and in hospital they drill it into you -'Breast is best' etc but when it comes down to the nitty gritty it just isn't as easy as putting your child to the breast and off we go.
IME i have found that HV's, GP's etc are actually not particularly pro- bf'ing - for example my GP told me i had to stop bf'ing to take medication and HV just agreed. I was devastated and expressed for 8 wks until a consultant appt where i was told i didn't need to suspend bf'ing. My DS wouldn't take the breast anymore, i tried everything. Rang HV for support, she just went online while i was on the phone and read me what she'd typed in google. This shouldn't really have happened....what i'm trying to say is that it is crap that so many babies are formula fed...you can cram the pro bf message down people's throats as much as you want but when it comes down to it the support, knowledge and help just isn't there in many cases.
It's very sad that ff is just part of our culture now...i ff my ds and i wish i didn't have to. There are so many sides to this debate!

Reading some of the messages on here is like reading statements from the BF nazi's, I am appalled that women should be so judgmental of other mothers when it is absolutely none of their business and ultimately comes down to choice. I am also outraged at the witting or unwitting suggestion that FF is selfish, there are many reasons why women dont BF, a number of my friends have had horrendous experiences trying to BF and being made to feel like a bad mother when they just cannot physically do it any longer, it is offensive, narrow minded and down right rude to judge other mothers, we all do our best for our children and this includes making an educated and informed decision, the very suggestion that it is a class issue is ludicrous and patronising!!

EllieG, I am not comparing ff with smoking, or its effects with cancer. I have explained that in one of my earlier posts, sorry if that wasn't made clear. I'm sorry that you offended but I stand by my statement and it was not ridiculous

People are constantly saying they "don't believe" the links between ff and certain conditions. Their reasoning is that other factors, diet etc also have an effect, and they do not believe that these factors can be taken into account.

My comparison with smoking, which I would like to emphasise was not comparing smoking with ff was that the link between smoking and ill health is one that's generally accepted, however the 'flaws' that people use to belittle any research to do with ff are similar. However, they obviously accept that for this research they have been controlled / accounted for in some way - so why can the same not apply for the ff research.

One person has given one reason which could go part of the way to explaining it. No one else has even addressed it as far as I am concerned, hence my frustration.

Does that make sense? I'd really like you to confirm you've read this as I am not happy about someone on MN assuming I would make such a comparison, and I certainly do not want myself used as an example of a breastfeeding nazi in other threads.

oh what an x post

sorry kezkawai, let me temper get away with me.
I've read your post now and it has nothing to do with me. I agree on an individual level no one should be judging. Also if a woman has made an educated decision to ff then that is her right, and she is in the best position to make that decision!

I think the reason there are no ff support groups are that it's in no-one's interests to promote ff, apart from the formula companies'. FF advice should be available from your HV, or from a peer support route if needed, I agree.

When I bf first time round all midwives etc said I was doing it right and latching on etc but I am still missing a part of my left nipple and still have nightmares about the pain and trauma. With #2 I just didn't want to suffer again so I ff and the whole thing was so much better.

ouch!

Poor you 3nc - that sounds bloody awful.

Tittybangbang - god I've read some judgemental crap about BF, but this really takes the plate of butterered scones. May I suggest that you reflect on how little you know about the experiences of people who have had traumatic births, ill babies, and weeks and months of non-stop anxiety about their babies before you pontificate about how babies feel.

Everyone has their own opinions, of course. It is very easy to cast aspersions when you really don't know the whole story. I have been guilty of doing it in the past, and i'm sure people have in turn done it to me. I know i've felt sort of guilty or crap bottle feeding around breastfeeding mums....i know thats probably my own problem and they really don't care either way. It shouldn't be that way..as Kezkawai said we are all doing the best for our children!
I think there is both bf snobbery and the bf ' nazi' attitude - i've certainly come across it, but on the other hand there is a genuine lack of support and information in some areas. Some mums can't, some don't want to, others love it, its down to personal choice really, but people will always have an opinion!!!

In fact this making me feel depressed at how critical women can be of each other, when surely having and nurturing children is something that connects us all.