Should maternity units provide formula?

[hunkermunker]

Or should you have to take it in with you if you're planning to ff?

I can see both sides of this - but what's your experience and how did you feel about it?

It is a bot difficult not sitting on your arse when you have a catheter plugged in.

TC, yes, there's some truth in what katpink says in that if your mum bf you, you're more likely to bf successfully and for longer. I can prob dig out some research to that end. But this is the problem with posts like katpink has made - they're written in a very inflammatory, close-minded and judgemental way but they contain just enough truth to make it hard for anyone to talk about the facts and issues without coming across as agreeing with the sort of "well, if mums don't even try yada yada bullshit" - which makes me v cross!

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread with personal experiences and thoughtful suggestions - I really, really appreciate it.

And also, there's nowhere that says that you can't change things for your daughter if you ff her and would like to support her to bf. There's a couple of good links here, for instance - just be thoughtful and kind and encouraging. Anyone who's read MN threads on what NOT to say to a mum who wants to bf will do well supporting their DD to bf in future, I reckon!

Formula should be there - but she be treated like other medicines, not as matter of choice.

If someone chooses to ff then they should bring it in, or pay for it on the ward. Only if there is a medical problem should it be distributed free.

But, I think it's an even more important thing to have breastfeeding counsellors on call 24/12. I saw someone on my ward struggling with bf and the counsellors were brilliant, and were there every day!

Very different from my experience in the same hospital 3 years earlier when I had problems and some doctors (not the mws) started threatening formula if 'baby not feeding well soon' I nearly ran out of the hospital, stitches and all.

I also had a funny incident second time. There was tea making equipment in the ward corridor, but the milk had run out. I went up to a mw and asked if there was any milk, she immediately reached into the cupboard for a bottle of formula. I sweetly held up my mug and said, 'erm no it's for my tea....'

Thing was, she was not going to question my request, just hand me a bottle of formula - now that's not right.

DS1 had formula for his 1st feed. I had lost a lot of blood and was well out of it, so in that case it came in very handy. I guess that kind of thing has been covered in this thread.
I went in intending to BF, my mum had BF us, my sisters had BF their children. Dicounting that first feed, I BF DS1 for 9 months.
I was always encouraged to BF, and the midwives were very helpful when I had trouble with the latch.

Yes

I say this as someone who b/f three children to around 1 year old each time.

DS 1 was prem and they thought I had managed to feed him myself and I in my first time mother ignorance thought I had too. He was left to sleep and when they tried to wake him after about 3 hours he was very sluggish and his blood sugar was low. The small bottle of formular fed from a cup saved him froma drip and a stay in intensive care.

I learnt a lot from that and then knew what to expect with my other 2

oh - my own experience - desperately trying to bf and express for a sleepy jaundiced baby. Lots and lots of formula top ups imposed - a mw who had recently transferred from another hospital told me off the record that she couldn't believe the no. of top ups that were going on on the ward.

One day I got told that I had to put the formula bottles (for top ups) out of sight in a drawer, so that it would look like they weren't promoting f-feeding (it was a breastfeeding friendly hospital). I was somewhat bemused given at that point I was working my arse off feeding and expressing to try and establish bfing!

Yep - I can see that there probably is a lot of truth in the bf leads to bf. Unfortunately the style of katpink's posts lit the touch paper for me.

oh I don't agree with any of the rest of what she said!

just a bit more to add - I had a horrible first few days after birth - after a complex birth my bladder went completely doolally on me and had to have a catheter (and poor mw care meant I had a needless night of agony). So I really wouldn't have been in a fit state to make up feeds. I think it would be a kindness to accept that many women will be exhausted and in pain the first few days, and even if formula feeding, a helping hand in the form of available formula for those who don't wish to bf can make things easier is justifiable.

I have only skimmed the thread
I'm pretty sure both hospitals I used said if you wanted to FF then you should bring your own although I'm sure they did have it available

I don't really see the availability of formula in hospital affecting bf - more likely bf is affected by the actions of the MW/HCPs suggesting formula use and not supporting those who are trying to bf

Regarding making up feeds and sterilising - both Tesco and Ocado sell the SMA bottles with the teats on so if you wanted to FF you could always take those with you

I was ff as a baby as were my siblings. I bf all 9 of my children.

My sister attempted bf-ing but had a dreadful time in hospital with recommendations to do things that had me with my jaw on the floor and left her quite traumatised. It completely put her off. For her 2nd baby she didn't even try to bf based on her experiences with her 1st.

I really do think that the support you receive and getting the right information is more important than whether formula is available in hospitals or not.

Thank goodness for people like Tiktok, Hunker and Babieseverywhere.

Thanks for the compliment, juuule. I tend to agree - free formula or not is a side issue. What matters is the day by day support and information and knowledgable help people get. 'Bring your own formula' would be a symbol of hospital support for bf but I am not very interested in symbols when we haven't even got the basics right.

Just this week I have heard from a mother who has been made very confused about what she has been told about breastfeeding - this is an informed mother, with access to the internet, family members who have breastfed and a supportive partner, but her midwife told her she should leave at least 3 hours between feeds or else her milk would not have time to replenish. Such basic misunderstanding is not uncommon.

Why is it wrong to suggest, in an open forum, and as a matter of debate, that formula could be made available, but only for medical purposes? I disagree completely, but can't understand why it's forbidden to mention it?

Of course no woman ever 'fails' in breastfeeding. There are so many reasons, and almost always, due to either false information or lack of support....

It's the way it's said, ilovelovemydog...contributing to a debate is fine, but couching it in judgemental terms (and boy - they were judgemental) is something else.

I've often contributed to discussions about whether or not formula should be available only on prescription and it's perfectly reasonable to debate this notion.

I think it should be available - but should it be free, and should it be just given to you if you ask, without asking why?

In hospital, it is reasonable for any request for formula to be part of a discussion and dialogue between midwife and mother. The mother needs to know the health impact of the use of formula, even if she sees it as a mainly positive intervention, and the impact it may have on her choice to breastfeed (if she is bf), and what the alternative might be (for example, handexpressing colostrum, skin to skin comfort for her baby) so she makes a fully informed choice. I don't think (personally) it should be charged for.

I read this whole thread and I find parts of it incredibly patronising towards mothers, to be honest. In fact, I find the whole question of whether formula milk should be available in postnatal wards patronising. To me it sounds a lot like asking whether chocolate, full fat foods, big macs, strong alcohol, cigarettes etc should be sold freely. They're all (to a larger or lesser degree) unhealthier than other food choices, but nobody is suggesting their sale is restricted. There is something called free choice, you know. Oh, and by the way, personally I think a diet of big macs & other junk food is probably much more unhealthy than a few months of formula feeding. Before anyone jumps on me & says ok then, free choices, formula should thus be sold (i.e. new mothers should bring it in hospital) I think that's absurd as well. New mothers are vulnerable & tired, often in pain, recovering from a huge physical & emotional ordeal. They need all the help they can get, & sterilising & preparing bottles themselves is the last thing they should be doing (by the way I think they should also be helped with all sorts of other stuff, e.g. changing newborns from meconium-stained-nappies in the middle of the night, but that's another story).

There is no amount of formula milk on offer than can dissuade a mother determined to breastfeed not to give it a good go. And there is no amount of breastfeeding 'support' (often quite bossily & insensitively given, if I judge from my own experience in hospital) that can convince a mother who wants to ff to change her mind. Having formula in the postnatal ward is irrelevant in my opinion to whether a woman will eventually bf or not, women are not mindless creatures who can be pushed in one direction or another so easily! We have a voice, we have choices, & we need to support each other in our choices & share experiences & information.

Whatever breastfeeding militants say, I will simply never ever agree that breastfeeding is such a central, life-or-death issue to the whole relationship with a child as they present it to be. Formula milk is NOT poison, it's not even close to being poison (things like alcohol are much much worse for the population at large). The idea expressed on this thread that 'allergies obesity & ADHD have become widespread since FF became widespread' is completely unsubstantiated. Please link us to the relevant research...

Speaking on a personal level. I'm currently breastfeeding my 5 month old, and I've been very happy with our breastfeeding relationship so far. It took effort & lots of good support (NOT in the postnatal ward, more at home after) to manage to breastfeed. I disagree completely with the person who said bf is 'a wonderful and enriching experience'. Yes, it has been a wonderful & enriching experience for me, but it really is a silly overgeneralization to say that's the case for everyone. I have friends who have exclusively formula fed & have actually found that a wonderful & enriching experience.

I agree with everything Lulumama & TikTok have said. I do think good, sensitive breastfeeding support is absolutely fantastic & should be more readily available. By the way, I've personally called several breastfeeding helplines at different times, & have received a variety of support, some of it good, some of it awful. Having a doula who was also a breastfeeding counsellor come to our place a couple of times a week for the first 6 weeks was what made all the difference. Without her I have no idea whether I would have overcome the initial difficulties of bf, which is why I find it incredibly patronising to suggest women should try & try & try, when exhausted & often depressed & demoralized after giving birth... what is needed as I said is good support, but not of the 'shoving bf down your throat' kind, which in my opinion backfires completely & is much more likely to put women off breastfeeding.

Anyway. Sorry for the essay. I just find lots of the stuff I read on this thread mind-boggling & offensive. Please, lets keep our common sense & lets just support each other in our choices...

The word, 'militant' is not helpful

I am glad that our local hospital had formula milk available, even though it was not my choice to ff. DS was born in a rush, had mucus in his stomach and wouldn't suckle for ages. He also had a tongue-tie that made bf'ing difficult to establish. My milk was very slow at coming in, possibly because of having been induced, not sure - but expressing was bloody hard going and very painful. I couldn't do it myself, I was hopeless and bruised myself - a mw had to "milk" me, as there were no expressing machines available at the time. DS was given a bottle of ff because he hadn't had anything at all for too long - I wasn't happy about it but accepted it on the principle that he needed something.

It in no way deterred me from continuing to attempt bf'ing, with the help of several mws with varying experience, and finally the lactation expert who was fab. But without it, DS's blood sugar might have dropped too low for him to have the energy to start suckling, so it was good that it was available, because I didn't have any with me as I had had no intention of using it.

So, yes, it should be available. It should not be pressed upon mothers, it should be there as a back-up - if mothers start off wanting to ff then they should bring in their own supply; but if they are having trouble establishing bf'ing then something needs to be available for the infants.

I should also say that, the first night after DS was born and I was still having nae luck with getting the latch right, or expressing (plus the bruises), I asked a senior mw if I could please have another bottle of ff for DS - she very kindly told me that if I wanted to bf, then it wouldn't be the best thing to do, and came and spent 20 mins helping me to bf (he managed 5 minutes) and then helping me express some more for later. I never asked for or needed the ff after that - I was lucky with the help I got.

It's quite sad that we can't have an open discussion on a chat forum about a subject that so clearly is important whichever way you look at it and however you wish to feed.

I decided early on when I was pg that I didn't want to BF mainly through peer pressure and lack of support, a decision I regret now but at the time it was right for me I suppose , I am glad it was availablein hospital because you do not know which Formula suts baby until after they arrive my DS couldn't take SMA and threw it up everywhere so we changed to C&G if I had of bought it, I would have had to have wasted money that I didn't have.

I don't think that it's right to say you can have formula but you can't equal rights at the end of the day. Yes BF should be encouraged and we need better support structures for pregnant and new mothers but people should not be essentially segrigated and penalised for their decision.

So yes it should be available to everyone who needs/wants it, it's a personal choice at the end of the day.

good point mamadiva - I hadn't thought of the intolerance side of things and promptly withdraw my feeble suggestion that people should bring in their own supply.

BUT - am not sure that maternity units in general have more than one choice of formula anyway? Don't they just have a standard one that they use for all?

No no thumb, if yiou don't have experience of thigs it slips your mind in a way it happens to me all the time

I'm not sure about all hospitals but the one I had my DS in had C&G, SMA and Farley's.

I'd just like to make a point to Feariemoo an I just say that after my son almost dying and having to get an emergency c-section possibly down to some incompitent midwives I'm afraid grabbing a couple of pre made bottles from a locked cabinet seemed like a pretty small inconvenience to put them through.

I can see charging would indeed be problematic, and probably wouldn't work.

I'm happywith TikTok's suggestion that a request for formula should be part of a dialogue.

Hospitals have got loads better at this. The mw's attitude had changed completely between the birth of my first in 2003 and dd2 in 2006.
If it hadn't been for my dh I would never have made it with bfing dd1 in hospital.

I think formula on wards is a distraction. I would much rather campaign for good, always available breastfeeding counselling - that would really make a difference I think.