Should maternity units provide formula?

[hunkermunker]

Or should you have to take it in with you if you're planning to ff?

I can see both sides of this - but what's your experience and how did you feel about it?

Sal, Oh - thanks for the clarification. Interesting point - that b/fing would be the norm, and f/f would be, essentially, on prescription?

Disagree completely, as it would be fascist, but still an interesting proposition.

Unfortunately, Reallytired, that policy is not adopted in many other NHS hospitals as far as I am aware, hence this debate.
In many hospitals formula feeding is as encouraged - if not more so - than breastfeeding, due to all those free little bottles of cow & gate the maternity wards get sent.

I was encouraged to give my five day old baby formula when she was ill in hospital with suspected meningitis - turned out to be a viral infection of some sort, thankfully. If an ill child is not in need of breast milk if available, I don't know who is!

if it was on prescription in wales it would cost the nhs even more - our precriptions are free!!!!! if being on precription would make it a less appealing choice then i don't think that would work

"Until then, maybe the hospitals need to amend their info to state that it is assumed that the baby will be bf unless the mother requests otherwise."

Maybe my viewpoints are enhanced by the fact that my antenatal care is given by a wonderful midwife-led unit where this is, essentially, what they practice?

By blushingm on Thu 01-Jan-09 23:28:09
if it was on prescription in wales it would cost the nhs even more - our precriptions are free!!!!!

----

LOL, quite true!

my opinion stems from something i heard years ago that a breastfeed child is likely to go on to be a breastfeeding mother. i can vouch for that with everyone i know this can be said to be true for BF and FF alike.
i also make the point that i took everything i needed in to hospital with me including sheets for the cot and took only my stitches and my baby with me when i left.
when were are being given time medical staff and drugs etc for free what can we reasonably expect to be given for free on top of that?
very low income families used to get milk vouchers outside hospitals is this still the case and therefore could it be considered part of this debate?

i wasn't suggesting percriptions in order to save the NHS money but to make it difficult to obtain i think you should still have to pay the full market price but still need to have a medicaly provable reason ie one the doctor agrees with.
this would i imagine piss off GP's sorry.

fairymoo and katpink - please don't express here or elsewhere what you think women 'should' and 'should not' do and when it is ok to give formula (you say, when there is a medical reason). I am sure you mean well, but directive, judgemental stuff like this upsets people who are sensitive about what happened to them and their babies...and you would not be accepted on a breastfeeding counsellor training course with those attitudes, I promise you

Women have reasons for giving formula and they may not always be medical in the strictest sense of the word. This does not mean they should be judged, or that sympathy or compassion should be withheld.

I think formula should be free of charge on maternity wards, but just as with any other health intervention (like pain relief in labour, or pain relief postnatally) its use should be discussed with the midwife and understood by the mother, and not on a 'help yourself' basis.

katpink - GPs are the very last group of healthcare professionals I would expect to know about infant feeding and whether a mother was medically able to breastfeed or not.

The idea of formula being on prescription is preposterous, sorry.

sorry piss off gp's in the sense it would increase there work load.

i am sorry can i ask why you think it's aceptable to tell me i cannot express my opinion freely yet you openly express your opinion about me directly when i am making broad statements about all women in general.
i'm sorry if my views upset you as this was never the intent. and i have never expressed an opinion that any women should have sympathy or compasion with held on any basis.
i have also never expressed a wish to be BF councillor and the opinions of fearymoo and my self vairy wildly.

oh sitting bull - you are exactly right (in my humble opinion)

OK, katpink - here's why it is not acceptable to express your opinion: because your opinion that people 'should' breastfeed and 'should' only bottle feed when they have medical permission to do so hurts people's feelings, and is insensitive to mothers who may have had non-medical reasons for bottle feeding and still feel they had no choice.

Is that a good enough reason?

You agreed 'totally' with faeriemoo who said she had no compassion or sympathy with women who bottle fed without this medical permission. This is distressing and hurtful.

I am a breastfeeding counsellor and my work supporting women is undermined when people express judgemental opinions on women who bottle feed.

Are those reasons for asking you to keep your rigid opinions to yourself good enough for you?

amen to that tiktok

katpink, instead of feeling superior to all of us who did not do the best for our children , why not ask yourself why so many women do not breastfeed, or only do so for a few days/weeks?

why not ask why formula feeding is so entrenched as the norm in society?

why not ask why women have to struggle with so much bad and conflicting advice?

rather than being judgemental

?

Katpink, please, please - if you want to judge women harshly for not meeting your standards, can you start another thread? As Tiktok says (hello, Tik - HNY!), views such as yours make it far more difficult for those supporting women to breastfeed - because if a mum who's eg undecided about bf reads them, then goes on to hear someone supportive and non-judgemental talking about bf, your narrowminded judging will be ringing in her ears. And the supportive, non-judgemental person has to overcome the barrier you and those like you has put up before even beginning to talk about breastfeeding. It's ignorant and it annoys me intensely - so stop it on this thread, please!

Faeriemoo, maybe get in touch with your local maternity unit's Maternity Services Liaison Committee and ask them if they have any peer supporter training courses running - and if not, why not! Maybe go along to a meeting. It's a really good way to get to know people at the hospital (and there are often very good people working there who are keen to improve things and working against the NHS machine of no money for bf, no real understanding across the PCT why bf is important - having support from service users is really, really valuable).

If you want to improve things, get your voice heard. You can make a difference - you don't have to wait for things to be done to you by the NHS!

By tiktok on Fri 02-Jan-09 09:59:33
You agreed 'totally' with faeriemoo who said she had no compassion or sympathy with women who bottle fed without this medical permission. This is distressing and hurtful.

----

No, I said I lacked compassion for those who choose not to breastfeed (in advance) for reasons other than medical ones (in general).

If you are going to comment on my posts, please do make an attempt to read them properly.

There is a big difference between those who bottle feed and those who don't even attempt to breastfeed for non-medical reasons.

If someone wants to formula feed for their own reasons, fine, whatever... but provide it yourself, prepare it yourself (after initially being shown by a midwife how do this in a safe and hygienic way) and don't expect to sit on your arse watching television whilst already strained midwives bottle feed your baby when they could be giving help to women who are trying to get breastfeeding established.

That last paragraph was not to you - just a general rant.

I think the hospitals should provide the formula milk and my reasons are:

Not everybody wants to breastfeed.

Not everybody can breastfeed.

For health and saftey reasons alone, it's a good idea to have the milk supplied instead of having parents scrambling all over the place to make bottles up.

The first few days are supposed to be a very special time, who wants to spend time worrying about making up feeds. Better to relax and not worry, instead have the formula given to you. You can do the bottles when you get home.

After I had dd I could barely move I was in so much pain, that continued for 2 weeks. If someone had told me to get up and make my own bottles whilst in hospital I would have cried. My milk came in quite slowly and dd was a very lazy feeder at first so she had a couple of formula feeds in hospital as I was worried she'd be hungry. She didn't have much of it - lazy I tells ya!

I think it's great that people breastfeed, I did with dd for 7 weeks and then put her onto formula. I wish I had continued for longer but I was young and shy.

I'll also say that whilst I support anyone's choice of feeding, it is their choice and not for anyone to question.

Yes formula should be kept in the hospitals but the breastfeeding support needs to be much better, in hospital and out of it.

Our hospital provides FF - little bottles of the stuff are routinely wheeled out if you've chosen to FF. Sadly the rates of BF around here are very low, but they are getting a bit better. I was in the tiny minority when BF mine in hospital.

Faeriemoo, I don't think you realise that you're still saying exactly what Tiktok said you were saying. It comes across as very judgmental.

"If someone wants to formula feed for their own reasons, fine, whatever... but provide it yourself, prepare it yourself (after initially being shown by a midwife how do this in a safe and hygienic way) and don't expect to sit on your arse watching television whilst already strained midwives bottle feed your baby when they could be giving help to women who are trying to get breastfeeding established."

You are weird, are you suggesting that bottlefeeding mums don't deserve post natal care? There is more to postnatal care than just establishing breastfeeding. Prehaps you think a mother who has chosen to bottlefeed deserves to die from lack of postnatal care.

I really don't think you are doing anything to persaude women to seek help with breastfeeding. The danger is that pregnant women reading this will think that all breastfeeding mothers are nuts.

faeriemoo, so you lack "compassion for those who choose not to breastfeed (in advance) for reasons other than medical ones (in general)."

This is slightly more specific, I agree, than the more general judgementalism I reported you as having.

It's still judgemental, it's still out of order, and it's still an attitude that would preclude you from training as a breastfeeding counsellor.

'my opinion stems from something i heard years ago that a breastfeed child is likely to go on to be a breastfeeding mother. i can vouch for that with everyone i know this can be said to be true for BF and FF alike.'

Katpink - what tosh a sweeping statement to make! You're basing this on exactly what research? FWIW I was ff as a baby as my mother was incredibly ill herself postnatally, and then as an adult I have managed to bf my dd for 6 months. I'm sure that there are lots of us ff babies turned bf mothers.

Tiktok - well said .

'If someone wants to formula feed for their own reasons, fine, whatever... but provide it yourself, prepare it yourself (after initially being shown by a midwife how do this in a safe and hygienic way) and don't expect to sit on your arse watching television whilst already strained midwives bottle feed your baby when they could be giving help to women who are trying to get breastfeeding established.'

I feel really sad that there are people like you that hold opinions like this around. Do you think before you type at all? Do you not realise that what you're saying is hurtful to other people? Do you have any regard for how other people feel?

How people choose to feed thir children is none of your business, and can I just say that whilst you're entitled to your opinion, if you must express it do so in a nicer, less aggressive way.

My favourite part was 'and don't expect to sit on your arse watching television'

Is it me or, is having a baby not a huge impact on your body? It generally hurts, well, quite a lot. I for one was more than happy to let other people run around after me for 2 days whilst I attempted to get better.

I think there is actually probably some truth in that bit of katpink's post - as if your mum or other close female relative breastfed, then it will be regarded as a "normal" thing to do and you will easy access to someone who has an idea from their own experience as to what is normal with bfing, which I think could be very helpful in the early days. I think it is a double whammy - that many of us have mothers who didn't bf, so who don't have that skill, and that professional support is so patchy and on occasion contradictory.