Should maternity units provide formula?

[hunkermunker]

Or should you have to take it in with you if you're planning to ff?

I can see both sides of this - but what's your experience and how did you feel about it?

Thanks Peachy, I do think I would have given up if it wasn't for talking about it on here.

"So are you saying fairiemoo, that a large number of new mothers have no idea whatsoever about how to put a baby's mouth onto a nipple? and that nobody ever shows them how to at least once in the immediate period after giving birth?"

With my DD1, she was born at 3:22am. I was not shown how to feed her until I had transferred to another hospital around 7am that evening, so no, I wasn't shown how to feed her immediately after giving birth.

I think a big problem is that mothers are not told how normal it is to have problems in the early weeks. All you ever hear is "Breastfeeding shouldn't hurt. If it does, you're doing it wrong!" FALSE. If it does hurt, you may have been doing it wrong before. Nipple trauma can occur from the first feed and if your latch was wrong then, no matter how good it is now, it can still hurt. Instead of women being told this, they are made to feel like they are failing, doing it 'wrong' and of course it encourages them to look elsewhere, particularly if an alternative is readily available.

Many breastfeeding mothers barely leave the house in the first few weeks, preferring to establish some sort of comfortable feeding. That way, people don't see that it can be tough, it can be hard. My best friend was pregnant when I gave birth to my DD2. I let her in right from the start - she saw the good, the bad and the ugly parts of breastfeeding (which of course there can be, it isn't a walk in the park always!), instead of just the bit after feeding was established and I could put DD to the breast with complete ease whilst eating my organic salad. She has told me this has made her far, far more confident in trying to overcome the problems she has had feeding her newborn, and confident in asking me for help when she needs it because she knows I have been through it myself.

All we see in the media (which granted, isn't much) is happy, smiley mums and babies enjoying a nursing session in the cafe over a flapjack and pot of tea. We don't see the early days of tears and frustration. This leads mums to think any problems are wrong, and that the only way to rectify it is to reach for formula.

Unfortunately, I believe that if formula is readily available, it's not as easy to push through that "Just one more bottle" niggle most of us have at the back of our mind.

7pm, of course, sorry.

I am still in shock at the image of a woman pushing a trolley around the postnatal ward saying "top up? top up?"

But you were shown before you went home.

My biggest help with bf-ing was the community m/w that visited me once I got home. I found her a great help. And I totally agree with you that "Breastfeeding shouldn't hurt. If it does, you're doing it wrong!" is a myth. My community m/c told me that the agony I was in was normal for some mothers. That it would pass. She was calm and relaxed about the whole thing and made me feel that it was normal. It did pass.

I am sure that I was shown how to breastfeed my baby properly, but after being in labour for 33 hours I was too tired / dim to concentrate and take it all in. I ended up hideously sore. I had been to ante natal classes, but I was not a breastfeeding guru.

My son did have top up of formula because he moderate jaudice, was jittery and I was useless at expressing. However my son was fed with a cup rather than using a bottle. Newborn babies can drink from a cup a bit like a cat. (Although they lose this reflex.) Cup feeding can help to avoid nipple confusion.

If it had not been for the hospital staff there is no way that I would have been sucessful at breastfeeding my son. I am very grateful to them.

I am absolutely terrified that I will not sucessfully breastfeed my bump. The community midwife seems to think it will be all plain sailing as I breastfed my son for two years.

There are similarities with your story and mine, reallytired.
We both had the birth to recover from and formula being available in the hospital helped us. The difference being that my baby had a bottle and yours had a cup. I, too, was no bf-ing guru and did my real learning to bf at home.

My hospital told us to bring everything needed (food, maternity pads, nappies, cotton wool etc) but in practice had supplies of all of these. I suspect they had formula too. There was a breastfeeding room with sofa and free TV, but the only other people ever in it were midwives sterilising bottles, so I guess all bottles were made up by them.

However, the breastfeeding support was pretty good, particularly in being reassuring that on day 2, what I had was merely a non-hungry baby, suggesting I let him at the breast regularly and they could help me hand-express in the evening mainly to reassure myself, although he ended up feeding well just before it came to that. Had lots of people check my latch on day 3, too.

But out of hospital, I had the opposite to the 'breastfeeding shouldn't hurt' - kept being told pain was normal, which meant I didn't get the help I needed.

A couple months ago the news reported a hospital where they were planning to charge for formula (Rochdale?). It might increase the number of women trying bf, but I think the risk of people not being able to afford it is too high (assuming it's like painkillers where they don't let you bring your own). Anyone know how that went?

IMO, if you can't afford to provide milk for your baby, you probably shouldn't be having one

As far as I know it was rejected.

Here in Spain EVERYTHING is provided. I don't think they should provide formula as when I had my ds, he was ff against my wishes.

Amapoleon - I'd say that's a different thing. Your baby shouldn't be given anything including formula, without you being consulted and agreeing to it

I agree that there should be alot more effort into helping those who intend to BF.
My friend tentatively decided to try it with her second child - she had been VERY anti BF before and whilst pregnant but I only found that out when chatting about getting a bag of things together to entertain her eldest son who is very active.
So anyway - she tried it immediately after birth - it worked - she was happy it didn't feel sexual - she was doing it - but before she could go home the midwife wanted her to say whether she was going to bf or ff - she panicked and said it was only day 2 of bf and her other son was ff so she didn't know how it would go.
THE MIDWIFE then said well if you didn't before you would find ff much easier - so she changed her mind - and the midwife said she needed to see the baby feed by the mothers chosen method before they left and bought her a bottle of ready made formula to give.
She stopped as she lost all confidence.. it made me very angry but I didn't tell my friend because she was overjoyed that she had tried it and if she has another she thinks she will try it again.

Yes you are right. It's a bit of a sore subject with me, I ended up having problems but as you say that's another story.

Realistically I suppose it makes sense to have it there just in case .

ByThePowerOfBaileys - That's terrible. for your friend and at the m/w.

Definitely isn't a cost issue. But if it was harder to get hold of ff in hospital then it would go a long way to normalising bf. Like I said it should be given out only by a qualified bfc, who will have tried everything to help the woman first, or assuming the woman wants to ff from the start, will have actually asked the question.
But I'm in fantasy land aren't I?

Stealth, I think it's a good idea and really shouldn't be a fantasy! Maybe we'll get there in the future...

fariemoo can i ask you - can you ever in your whole entire life failed at somethign or has something you planned not gone as you hoped??????

i bf both me dc's and 2nd time round was more detirmed than ever but it didn't go as i planned. I ended up with an absess deep in my breast so big it needed it to be lanced with a 6 inch needle every 3 days for 6 weeks
life doesn't always go according to plan and what actusally gives you the right to be so judgemental about other peoples choices - i couldn't bf again as i am on medication that is incompatible (and unless you can give me 1000% proof it's safe i wouldn't risk it) and this makes me feel incredibly guilty. Until you walked a mile in someone shoes keep your thoughts and opinions to yourself

next you'll be saying that support shouldn't be given to addicts and smokers as it costs the nhs money and then they shouldn't be treated if they get an illness as it's self inflicted. or IVF shouldn't be paid for on the nhs as having a baby isn't essential to keeping someone alive. We in wales get free prescriptions - do you think we should all pay like those in england do as it's costing the nhs money.

RANT OVER

Thank you very much for your posts - I'm upset but not shocked (ykwim) by some of the stories of poorly trained HCPs on here.

I have lots of concerns about making wards formula-free - but equally, I have concerns about the "equality" of formula with breastmilk - as if they are completely equal things to choose between, when, in reality, all the research says otherwise.

And it's clear that many HCPs need better training and there needs to be more access to trained support staff. I've been reading some fascinating stuff recently, for instance, about emptier breasts producing more calorific milk, which is directly contradictory to what many midwives tell you, wrongly; that you need to wait between feeds long enough for your breasts to fill up.

Maybe having more voluntary peer supporters is a short-term measure - they do valuable work, the training course is interesting and not long (12 hours, iirc) and having someone who is interested in you and your baby and your bf relationship gives you a measurably greater chance of succeeding.

But I think a great deal of the issue is that bf is all about "charity" and "volunteering" - I'm not suggesting that mothers ought to pay for bf support, but I am suggesting, strongly, that Government ought to put more money towards proper training for the people who are already there to support you - midwives, HVs, GPs - any HCP you see with your baby, in fact. Because you can bet they've all got an opinion on how you're feeding your baby - and they won't be shy in telling you.

Until we value breastfeeding in society, the women who support others to do it, it's an uphill slog to get anyone to see it as anything but an equal choice with formula - and when it's the healthcare professionals and the local councillors and the MPs who see it as that - what chance have women got of guaranteeing decent breastfeeding support the next time they go into a maternity unit?

i BF from birth and was lucky.
my personal oppion is that forumlar should not be on sale or avaiable to anyone who doesn't have a genuine medical or circumstanual reason for not BF. you should have to get it on percription if you need it.
It's not your body your baby, it's another persons whole life your making a decision about?
research shows that for the best start in life you need to be BF. All these things that are happening to our children allergies,obesity ADHD etc.. have only happened in large numbers since FF was mainstrem.
There are many other decisions that are made for our children we have little say in why not this.
i now plenty of people who haven't even tried to BF or have given up after a few days, it can take weeks to estabish a feeding pattern and for it to be comfortable. but a slight breast discomfort is nothing compared with nine months of hell followed by pushing a head out of your fanny.

i would just like to add. Women need to love each other and work together to make all the information reguarding pregnancy, birth and BF.
so much of what women tell each other is horror stories.
you think years ago your mother would have ten kids so would your family members you would just see all these things happening and understand them better.

"but a slight breast discomfort is nothing compared with nine months of hell followed by pushing a head out of your fanny."

Erm, sorry, but I found the pain of bf-ing far worse than the 9m of pregnancy (which I quite enjoyed once past the threat of m/c) and I also quite like giving birth. So your opinion (as most people's) is based on your experience and shouldn't necessarilly be used as a measure to decide what other people should or should not do.

And not wanting to be too controversial because I do believe that bf-ing usually gives a human being the best start they can have nutritionally, but I don't think all the ills of later life can be blamed on ff-ing.

katpink, there are problems with having formula on prescription - you hand over control of your feeding choice to a health professional who may or may not know much about bf, may or may not have their own personal axe to grind wrt feeding choice (and women do have a choice here - and much as I appreciate your point about it being a choice you make for your baby, but whilst it's your body doing the feeding, it has to be a choice you are comfortable with).

My aim is to help more women feel comfortable making that choice, by talking to them about what they're concerned about wrt breastfeeding, what's normal when you're breastfeeding and how to hurdle any problems you might encounter - because telling women it's the best thing for their babies so why aren't they doing it is really inflammatory and unkind - women who've just had babies can be very vulnerable and criticising them isn't a good thing to be doing.

a breast abscess being lanced isn't 'a slight breast discomfort' trust me - when they decide to explore with the needle it hurts like hell

i think you were just v lucky katpink - i know i made decisions about my childrens life when i 'gave up' breastfreeding and 7 years on i still feel it. And you can't say obesity, allergies and adhd have only happend since ff became mainstream. My younger db was exclusively bf and he was hyperactive (which was quinte a new term 27 years ago) my sis was bf and she has tree, nut and dust allergies. Peoples lives have changed in the last 30 years, wider diets, we are becoming more sedentary and we are understanding and discovering more about our bodies every dat

katpink, see, what posts like yours do is make people feel bad and they post defensively and my EXCELLENT POSTS get ignored which makes me cross.

Talk about how we can improve, this, please, people - please?

hunkermunker i completely agree with your last post