I HATE all this pussyfooting around!

[pandaface]

Iv just read a post about someones ff story, and have also commented on it.
Why are people so scared to say, "Well, at least try bf, its the best you can do for your baby."

Instead of all this "Is a mothers right to chose how to feed."
Well, yes, but it isnt the babies choice to be raised on powdered cows milk, compared to the PERFECT milk that is breastmilk.

Yes, sometimes its hard, and downright painful, but surely, as mothers, its something we should EXPECT to have to do? Motherhood isnt easy, so why is feeding the first thing people skimp on effort with?

I tried to bf ds but I couldn't get him on properly so gave up and ff, and do you know what? There's no looking back for me.
I think it's great if you do bf, but also great if you don't. TBH, I don't really care what others do, none of my business.
BTW, I'm not even going to attempt to bf dc2 but that by no means makes me a bad mother. As a mother, I expect to love and look after my children in any way I can, but i do not expect to do things that I don't want to an don't have to. I don't think this makes me selfish, there is nothing wrong with formula, my baby ill still be fed and that's all what matters isn't it?

I do wonder why some people don't... My cousins wife tried for a day and said it was weird. The only thing we can do is make it more normal, acceptable and understood.
Perhaps if people were told that it can hurt, takes time, is not a measure of your parenting skills it would be easier for everyone.
As for judging people I kind of do when I see a small baby with a bottle, but then I remember 'Who am I to judge?' and carry on worrying about my own parenting.

might be expressed milk in that bottle, twelvelegs!

The best thing about feeding a baby is finding milk that lets them grow and sleep, anything else is a bonus.

twelvelegs, what I meant is your comment about your own non judgemental view. I am agreeing with you .

During the security restrictions at Heathrow, I was asked to 'taste' the bottle which I refused. Security asked me why and I explained that it was expressed .

He was very embarrassed.

I know, I know you were agreeing!! I sometimes feel the need to return with a more amicable and easily read post as humour is sometimes missed on here?
I am quite judgemental and then you come on MN and are reminded why you shouldn't be.....

twelve legs, no it's me. Because I'm american, some people say that I miss irony.

Thing is, even Americans say I miss jokes

Read your other thread - hope you are OK

I love ironing!! Yes I'm okay, thanks. I am getting used to it all and when I look at my little girl, who is beautiful and very cute at 20 months, I think it's good that she'll be the only one. She's very demanding and may have been super jealous of another girl. Just have to make sure I'm not the MIL from hell so I don;t lose my little boys to wicked DILs!!!
Thanks for asking.

Aargh, I hate these troll OPs.

That said, even these threads often throw up good stuff.

I think Sabire's made an interesting (but uncomfortable) point, for example, that we think about feeding babies in quite a mum-centred way ("happy mum, happy baby") rather than a baby-centred way ("how would this baby choose to be fed?"). Uncomfotable because we know that babies are totally selfish and self-centred and would probably choose to be breastfed no matter what the awful cost to the mother.

I guess there's a happy medium somewhere in between?

< "Off you fuck" is instantly adopted into welliemum's vocabulary >

well, as i may have mentioned once or twice on this and other threads ... given that so many mums are made so unhappy by not receiving support with their bfing, that would be a good place to start.

AND it would join together both extremes with 'happy bfing mum = happy bfed baby'.

Oh, you said this before, Aitch? Must concentrate.

lol.

"BTW, I'm not even going to attempt to bf dc2 but that by no means makes me a bad mother. As a mother, I expect to love and look after my children in any way I can, but i do not expect to do things that I don't want to an don't have to. I don't think this makes me selfish, there is nothing wrong with formula, my baby ill still be fed and that's all what matters isn't it? "

Ahh, the irony of that typo!!

And Aitch, surely it should be "Happy (bf) Baby = Happy (bf'ing) Mummy"?? LOL

I think it's interesting, and important, that we take on board what Flubdub very bravely admits in her other thread, that she didn't really know the difference etc first time around. One basic fundamental change in the way we discuss infant feeding would change all that. We need to start referring to the risks of formula feeding, not the benefits of breastfeeding. That statement is far more accurate and would lead people to discuss the issue and find out the truth.

Monkies

Monkies

Quoting Pandaface "Yes, sometimes its hard, and downright painful, but surely, as mothers, its something we should EXPECT to have to do? Motherhood isnt easy, so why is feeding the first thing people skimp on effort with"

Maybe you could apply this to everything:
Do you have your children vaccinated?
Did you wean your children at 6mths?
Do you feed your children completely organic, local fruit and veg and 5 or more portions a day?
Do you take your children to the dentists religiously every 6mths?
Do you discipline your children positively, having never shouted at them or lost it more than a few times,
Do you let your children watch television for more than the recommendations may suggest?

The list can go on and whatever choices we make it isn't usually the choice of the child is it? It's us, the parents, and every point has it's own views attaching them.. to say it's the first thing people skimp effort on regarding bf, OP have you not read the numerous posts on here with mothers who struggle or get the wrong information/support

Are you trying to have a go GreenMonkies?
Who are you to make that sort of comment to me? Have I made a personal attack on anyone? Why can't people like you just respect the choices of others and keep all negative opinions to yourself?

No, I was not having a go or making a personal attack, just passing comment on the irony of the typo.

Monkies

Women only have breasts to feed babies.

This fact is not communicated to our young..

Sad

Just read OP so apologies if am going to offend anyone - posts like that make me so cross. I really struggled with bf and had to give up. Personally, when giving my baby formula I felt shitty enough and didn't need someone like that making me feel like I was feeding her bloody battery acid. Give other women a break why don't you? For goodness sake.

It really isnt cut and dry

i am havin to fight like hell for the hv etc to back off on formula as i want to continue to bf my 12 week old

i am a 4th-time mum, a fighter due to sn kids, and trained in bf by unicef.

How on earth could any vulnerable woman be expected to survive such pressure- i've struggle, tried a bottle just for hv peace but my brilliant lad wouldn't have it .

Walk a mile in my moccasins, and all that.

Though I do agree with whoever said that women should have access to better support and advice about bf. If I had had decent advice would still be doing it now, which makes me and

x-posts there peachy - ditto to wot you said

the 5 portions doesn't apply to kids. Only to adults.

thoroughly bored by loony OP but interesting points about the accuracy of bfing stats.

I can add to that; I was asked at DS's first checkup whether I was still bfing, I said yes and they duly filled it in. Then at 2nd and 3rd checkups they never asked - just took the sheet away without giving me a chance to say.

When I noticed the gap I thought about filling it out myself at home but since they'd already removed the top carbon sheet to use for their records I figured no-one but me and DS would ever see the bottom sheet.

So it kind of doesn't surprise me that there are few stats on women bfing beyond 6 weeks, because clearly the HCPs just aren't asking the question. I'm probably on some government database as having given up at 6 weeks, despite the fact that we are still going strong at 2 years.

they told me at 6 weeks to stop, but said 'but we can tick yes for now can't we?'

was tempted to lie in future, continue but pretend ff, can't be arsed; ds4 now growng ok, is thriving every other way, want them to see that for future mums

So pissed off with ignorant OP, but pleased to see her view isn't the majority one.

My experience was much more like that of Peachy...

Dd1 born early/small by elective CS due to placenta praevia and fed by NGT for nearly 3 weeks. First question I get asked 'What brand of formula do you want her to have?'. When I replied that I didn't want her to have formula and had no idea what brands even existed, they looked at me as if I was mad. Now, I understand that dd needed feeding. But I was a bit shocked by the matter-of-factness with which they poured formula into her. They were also shocked when I demanded to be taken to a breast pump before I was even on my feet (wanted to get colostrum into her asap). I pumped for 20 minutes every three hours (except between 1.00 a.m. and 7 a.m. when I only woke up to put formula down my dd's NGT, hating every minute of it, and didn't bother to pump) for three days before I got enough milk out to give her some. Even so, it was a teeny amount, so she was still mostly getting formula. It took at least a week before she was wholly on EBM, and by that time I'd been forced to go home and leave my baby in hospital. Whenever I visited her (i.e. all day, every day) the nurses begged me to give her a bottle. I said no. She was never really awake enough to bf, but I kept on pumping. In the end, I was so desperate to get my baby home (as there was nothing wrong with her apart from not feeding) that I tried breast shields. Eventually I did get her home using them, but she could not latch on without them. I tried and tried, but she couldn't. I have almost flat nipples and big boobs and she couldn't 'get a grip'. But with the breast shields she was 'failing to thrive'. She was below 6lbs at her 6-week check and again everyone started telling me that I should be thinking about changing to ff. My MIL even made a distant cousin of hers, who is a paediatrician, phone me to tell me that I was doing her more harm than good by continuging to try to bf. So at 6 weeks, I gave up. I was so gutted that dh had to feed her for the first few days as I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Everyone told me I was doing the right thing. But it felt so wrong. DD1 had 'ishoos' with food from day 1 (she eats normally now, aged 8, but the first 5 years or so were a constant battle) and she now seems to have some allergies too. And, yes, it's all a long time ago now and it does 'all come out in the wash' to some extent. But I do still feel a bit of those who manage to bf.

Oops, that was long, wasn't it. And all I wanted to say was that it's just not clear-cut.

[Peachy... did you see I started a thread for you about RE teaching a while back? It's here.