Can anyone recommend a good organic formula milk for newborns?

[megglewell]

Have read a bit about HIPP but no others..

SWC, you seem to want people to do things in a very exact way... it's too much, this is the internet, you can't control exactly how people phrase thigns.

i personally don't see a huge difference between your questions and tiktok's comment, tbh, the thrust was the same. the next poster after "what are you feeding your baby at the moment?" or "why are you interested in organic formula in particular, if you don't mind me asking"? might have said 'cos there's a bigger difference between the best organic and the worst bm' or whatever was said and everyone would have been scolded anyway. that was the dodgy bit, imo, not Tiktok's, and the poster has agreed and apologised.

I think SWC's point is similar to mine (if I may be so bold SWC).

I think that the effort to create a culture of normalisation around bf is just not working very well and perhaps set responses to these types of questions are part of the problem.

Let me put it this way - I am very pro bf and finally managed to get to bf my daughter. But what helped me was not constant mention of bf and pointing out how much less good formula is. In fact, that would have riled me. What helped me was people taking the emotion out of the situation, letting me see that taking my time to get there was fine, helping me get confident while I learned. That's what I think needs to change.

This year I have come across two new mums trying to bf and they also did not want to be told that formula feeding is not as good because they know that but they don't know what else to do.

Oh poor SWC

Can you imagine a thread where the op was struggling with bf and was asking for specific advice on feeding poitions and the first post was offering some advice on feeding positions - followed by a comment like 'well of course ff is much easier '

Can you imagine the kerfuffel? And quite rightly imo.

But it would be an opinion based on fact (for many people it is easier)!

Feeding threads need a different tack. FULL STOP!

Margo - you are sooooo right

DKMA : You say I risked pissing 10 people off for the possible benefit of helping 1 person...I am not bothered about pissing people off, to be honest, though I do care about upsetting people. I have no idea if the ratio would be ten pissed off people to one helped person anyway....it might have been one helped OP plus a thousand others who read it, and three people who were pissed off. No idea.

I made a judgement. I was sensitive. You are putting me in a category with people who would not care what they say as long as, somehow, breastfeeding was bigged up, and I am not like that, as you know.

margo: "What helped me was people taking the emotion out of the situation, letting me see that taking my time to get there was fine, helping me get confident while I learned."

I agree. When I post on MN, I hope I follow that path. On this thread, my comment at the start was not in the least emotional!

The more I read this thread the more I think the MN split is not bf vs ff but people who want facts vs people who want facts suppressed in the interests of sensitivity

doesn't one always try to employ sensitivity, whether or not one is delivering information containing pure fact?

And if one is really trying to persuade someone to do something, then sensitivity requirement is doubled.

that's the nub of it for me, M&J, i think tiktok was in no way trying to persuade the OP to bf. i think she was trying, if anything, to give her an opportunity to say whether or not she felt bfing was an option for her.

tiktok doesn't get points on an NCT store card for inveigling people who don't want to into bfing, but it must mean a lot to her to help people who've been given duff info or are being undermined or she wouldn't give up so much of her free time on here doing so. she shouldn't be the target of this, no way, nor should she ever have been imo. if you want to take it up with someone, take it up with the posters who followed her, they were not sensitive imo.

This thread has been here for days and I keep reading it as 'orgasmic' . Am hiding the thread now.....

Actually on reflection (sorry, I am banging on rather) I don't think sensitivity is the issue. I think a new approach is the issue.

Not for MN particularly but for the whole public health message around bf. It's too easy to slag off formula but that's not a positive message. And normalising bf is all very well but you will still come across people like me who think it's very normal and very bloody hard!

I think the anti-smoking crusade has come to a similar realisation. The new ads (with kids copying parents) are much more about tapping into the fact that most smokers know it's harmful and they would like to stop but it's hard rather than telling them (again) that they are killing themselves.

"Can you imagine a thread where the op was struggling with bf and was asking for specific advice on feeding poitions and the first post was offering some advice on feeding positions - followed by a comment like 'well of course ff is much easier'"

The trouble is, irl this happens all the time. I've lost count of how many women I've spoken with who have asked a Dr / HV / MW for breastfeeding support... only to be told "oh if you can't bf, formula's almost as good, you've done your bit."

When I was struggling in the early days with bf I often got thrown the "happy mum = happy baby - why don't you ff; your ds might even sleep through the night then, mine did!" line.

I do seem to remember it happening here on MN; in fact I remember a discussion not long ago where the OP was asking for tips to stop her ds' (just under 1y/o iirc) constant biting... and was told by many people she could give up now, she'd done her bit.

But the difference was, in that thread, no one jumped on those posters. In fact the OP appreciated that in their own way they were trying to help... and just waited until someone came along with the answers she was searching for.

I do see that you have to tread carefully, infant feeding's a very emotive subject (often because women are let down by HCPs who know little about breastfeeding beyond the standard "breast is best" spiel and therefore stop bf before they needed to - or wanted to), but I also think that if we tread on eggshells and don't ever mention the fact that infant formula isn't "almost as good as breastmilk", for fear of offending people, we risk not getting the relevant information out there at all. Just creating yet another generation of women who feel "bad" (or angry, or upset, or guilty, etc) because they weren't able to bf their lo. Meaning in 20 years' time this type of conversation will still be happening on MN.

Margo - perhaps very few people realise that the best way impart and idea / concept (whatever) is to 'engage' them, not tell them.
Tiktok - before you jump up and down - I don't mean you here. Also I am not putting you into a category just quoting back to you something you said - can you not see how that attitude to promoting bf'ing is a bit odd . I am sure you have helped MANY people and should be commended for that, but knowing that you will piss people off and still posting is a little their are many ways to skin a cat as they say, and as discussed earlier where was probably a better way to pitch yourself there.

MandJ I agree a new approach is needed. To include full training on bf for HCPs!

Aitch I do agree. I didn't want to name and shame. I know tiktok has been around the block a few times (in the nicest possible way tiktok ) so I think (hope) she doesn't object to my comments. I know it means a lot to her to support bfers and she does a great job.

It is not the first time I have seen some other posters post things that I personally think are unhelpful but I didn't really want to go there because this is not about me versus other posters. It's actually about how I view the whole bf campaign and the way it is presented. In my entirely personal opinion that it could do with a change of tack. It's something that I care about quite a bit despite being past that stage.

totally, M&J, but it always comes down to money i suppose. if the HPs aren't trained (or are, as i discovered to my cost, themselves the victims of untrained HPs and therefore spouting the 'i couldn't bf, it's too difficult for some people, formula didn't do my kids any harm' line) then all this is just hooey.

and there wasn't a better way for tiktok to 'pitch' herself, as it happens DKMA. she pitched it perfectly, we know this because the OP wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by her comment. you might have a case were it not for this essential fact...

although what would that campaign be, M&J? likening it to the anti-smoking one, which acknowledges that people for the most part want to give up?
so, something like 'we know that 70% of you want to bf from the beginning, we're here to help you keep going' might be good IF the help really were there. cos i for one don't think that trying to persuage people who don't want to bf should be the aim. let's help the majority first, that'll normalise things for the next generation. i know tiktok agrees with me on that, she said so recently on another thread.

DK - I know I will piss someone off, whatever I say. This is the internet, and people are unpredictable, and pissing off is unavoidable. Obv I don't do it deliberately, but anything I say about feeding is going to irritate someone - if I had said nothing at all except the info about formula, I would have pissed someone off, perhaps someone who might have thought I could have added something in about bf, in a light hearted, sensitive way

If I wanted to be sure I would never piss anyone off, I would stay off talkboards

As I keep saying, I made a judgement. I got it right this time (I think), and then it was messed up by subsequent posters. Not my fault.

lol
tiktok keep sticking your oar in, there are plenty of us who are glad you do

Yup, Aitch - that is wot I fink. I am not in the business of persuading at all! I will come up with information when asked, and will encourage people to think about what they will need in order to bf with confidence, but actual persuading....no, no and thrice no!!

and yes, sensitivity is good but not at the expense of being treated like an adult with the facts in important areas

Oh dear again
Wrong end of the stick again Aitch
Get the impression you don't 'get' where I'm coming from with this. If this was rl I would put more effort into my explaination, but it isn't so I can't be arsed.

Margo - i too have posted on mn in the past re - different tack / strategy for promoting bf'ing as it is something I too feel strongly about.
The current strategy is not working well, but it's ot just about money - more a chang in attitiude and approach im(humble)o.

I agree aitch. I wouldn't aim at trying to help people who don't want to bf and are clear about that. Support those who want to but can't or don't know how and eventually it will establish itself again as the norm. Likewise I would not worry overly about persuading people to bf beyond 1 year or even 6 months or whatever. If you do want to that's great but I would focus resources on the first few months and actually all the effort should be on the first few weeks.

And agree with RTP that the HCPs are pretty shocking on this.