who *isn't* ashamed to admit using formula?

[LookingForwardToSummer]

feeling crap after reading the 'exclusive breastfeeding' thread! i find bf really hard and have set myself the target of 5 months, i intend to feel very proud that i went that long and then use formula happily! i can't be the only one! all the stats show low bf rates - so where is everyone?

That's because there is no reason to

dd didnt have the sucking reflex tiktok to the point scbu wanted her to be tube fed. She was born at 42 weeks. I have known (in my experience of friends) this to be the case with alot (not all) of children with SLDs aswell (unknown sld's at that point aswell obv)

or ashamed. i might be ashamed if I crapped myself in the co-op for example

I meant term babies without other problems, obv....if a baby doesn't have a sucking reflex at term, the baby should be investigated for these other issues.

riven - your experience sounds exhausting. That's just poor care - a term baby who cannot suck/swallow needs a specialist opinion. Just telling the mother to continue with what she's doing is not good enough.

I have come across (in my experience as a breastfeeding counsellor) a handful of term babies who were not breastfeeding well - cdn't seem to get it together at all. All the healthcare people assumed 'mother hasn't enough milk' and/or told her to 'persevere'. They totally missed checking the babies out for other underlying problems - the sort of things to check for might include a serious heart defect, brain damage, other underlying disability.

tiktok they dont investigate further, they dont even help you. They send you home with a child that can ahrdly feed and you struggle on for months and months (and this is even with formula) You ring the HV daily, the child is losing weight and is classed as failure to thrive but still no-one steps in ainvestigates further. You are high eyebrowed by the HV aty the clinic so you stop going and ring your own HV to come out everyday. She doesnt know what to do either

oooh interesting throckenholt. I always described ds3 as a very gentle feeder (which was a problem- as I was low on milk anyway and he wasn't stimulating the breast enough). He just seemed to wait for the milk to pour into him. Perhaps that's why. My situation sounds similar to yours in that I was also very busy with other children (toddler plus severely autistic 5 year old) and that plus very low milk supply, plus very gentle feeder stuffed the whole lot.

DS3 was very late to lose his gag reflex too (which made weaning interesting).

Hmmmm.

me too, Herecomethegirls - dd was 35+5.

Tiktok, can I thank you for being the calm voice of reason and sanity as ever. Wish I'd found Mumsnet and been able to talk to you before dd was born.

oh, and just to demonstrate how babies differ, feeding ds was so easy, it just worked.

dinny - did your dd have any problems? Mine has hypotonia and not sure if it is connected to being slightly pre term.

dd had hypotonia too fwiw. Low muscle tone is connected to not being great at sucking/dribbling alot/klate speech in some acses etc

dinny, thanks

In real life I am the agitated voice of unreasonableness and insanity, of course

Every breastfeeding counsellor I have met has been wonderful, warm and sympathetic. We saw a really lovely woman many times, when even she couldn't establish bf I realised that probably noone could and resigned myself to expressing for as long as possible.

tiktok > throckenholt, it's only pre-term babies that don't have a fully developed sucking reflex

what does pre-term mean here ? My 38 weeker definitely didn't get sucking when he was born (but he was induced with syntocinon - maybe that contributed ?). He was about 4 weeks before sucking clicked and sudden;y we could breast feed (continued for a year with no problems).

pre-term is before 37 weeks

I have read quite a bit of research saying that late pre term babies (35 or 36 weeks) can have more problems than people imagine, maybe there is something in it.

throckenholt, I have certainly helped mothers of 38-weekers who were just not quite 'cooked' and though technically, 38 weeks is term, in practice, it may not be (especially if the calculation of dates is a bit 'out', and this is perfectly possible).

Any interference with the birth process - though of course this is often necessary - can affect early feeding. Some of the experiences of the baby during birth contribute to feeding 'readiness'.

HGTG, yes, because dd was a good weight for her gestation (6.7lb, yes I have big babies!) I always presumed age was fine. have you any links you've found helpful?

do you know why you delivered at 36 weeks? i don't but I think I may have had a UTI, perhaps (I had Group B in my 2nd pregnancy)

how old is your dd now and does she have any ongoing issues? is the hypotonia still in evidence?

dd finds certain things difficult - skipping, gymnastics, writing, reading - she finds learning things wuite hard, I suppose

oh, darling girl, am getting upset witing this

another thing that caused us problems - I had big nipples - my little babies had small mouths - especially my tiddly twins - there was no way they could get enough nipple in to suck properly - despite midwives telling me otherwise.

I think there are some brilliant midwvies out there - but some bad ones too when it comes to breast feeding.

If mothers were told it does not always work brilliantly to start with - but don't panic - things can come good even a month down the line. And here is what you can do in the meantime.

Then you would have fewer people coming on here getting upset because they had to switch to formula and they didn't want to, and they feel a failure and let down, and think people are blaming them.

Dinny, hello, and thanks, yes, things are pretty good now, DD is 18 mos and standing up, hopefully close to walking, speaking lots, also has some attention problems but I put that down to being exceptionally lively!!!

throck, I so agree....it is not a lost cause if things don't work straight away, and there are ways to ease the difficult early days and weeks.

Ayomi downthread has somehow got the impresh that breastfeeding is over for her, and her baby is only four days

It's poor postnatal care not to inform mothers that options are still there....

Dinny- I will look out some links. My DD was 6lbs 2, also a good size. Not sure yet if she will have ongoing problems, she has supportive boots to help her to learn to walk just now, we will have to see how she manages once she CAN walk. We have been told she may be clumsy when she is older so I presume she might have the same problems as your DD is having.

I have no idea why she came so early, I did blame myself for a while as she was posterior and I was doing lots of exercises to try to turn her, and I worry that I started labour too early, but really just not sure.

Don't get upset, it sounds like she has a lovely mummy who lets her try all sorts of things and is very supportive of her.

I think there's a difference between a 38 weeker who has arrived at 38 weeks after a natural labour and a 38 weeker who is 38 weeks because the docs decided he/she needed to be delivered. My 38 weeker (ds2 - elective c section) was very like a preemie- he slept all the time, had trouble breathing at birth, needed an incubator etc etc and had problems establishing feeding (although we managed and he was fed for 2 years in the end).

He suddenly 'woke up' at about 40+ weeks- was really obvious when he would have been born had he been left to it.

I must say, maybe because of her size, my DD was given NO special care whatsoever and treated like any other baby even though she slept all the time, didnt open her eyes for days and got jittery because she didn't wake for feeds, not sure how much that has to do with it either.