Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

who *isn't* ashamed to admit using formula?

635 replies

LookingForwardToSummer · 30/04/2008 11:42

feeling crap after reading the 'exclusive breastfeeding' thread! i find bf really hard and have set myself the target of 5 months, i intend to feel very proud that i went that long and then use formula happily! i can't be the only one! all the stats show low bf rates - so where is everyone?

OP posts:
welliemum · 30/04/2008 23:07

I have to go now.

margoandjerry · 30/04/2008 23:07

Butterflymcqueen, you have made the point so well. Why do I, a pro bf person, end up feeling so alienated by the bf discussions on here?

I really think the pro bf people need to reframe their argument. If they are alienating you and me (and I bloody fought to bf let me say), it's clear the message is not being put well.

ButterflyMcQueen · 30/04/2008 23:22

Yes margo

earlier today i felt so 'annoyed' by the smug 'have you never let your child near poison formula ' thread that i was forced to comment on it. of course i was slated.

if i were a young or first time mum i could see myself scared off these threads for fear of not matching up

if a drop of the 'battery acid' helps someone even get colostrum into their baby then surely that is good

or is it 'all or nothing'?

zippitippitoes · 30/04/2008 23:24

havent read the thread lol

but im not ashamed

zippitippitoes · 30/04/2008 23:25

i am on both threads

i think it is quite irrelevangt for moast people to be honest

tori32 · 30/04/2008 23:39

I'm quite happy to say that I bf dd1 for only 6 wks and had a thoroughly miserable baby and got PND myself due to exhaustion and guilt of giving up bf. Going on formula was the best thing to happen with her.
My dd2 is 5wks today and I am now ex bf her, however, if I had not topped her up with formula on night 2 and 3 I probably would have given up bf because I would have been up all night both nights feeding her and would have ended up exhausted again. As it was after having ff at 0200 on night 2 and 2230 on day 3 she slept for 6 hours each night. I got lots of rest and regrouped. With bf I get up once per night now, so if I know she would sleep through on ff. I will bf until I feel I have had enough of sleep deprivation

AitchTwoCiao · 30/04/2008 23:40

didn't 'vacuous trilling' refer to HCPs and other people who should be supportive of mothers' choices? i can't be arsed checking but i'm pretty sure it was. and as someone who didn't manage to bf successfully and who WANTED to i must say i heard a lot of that kind of trilling from people who should have just fking supported me in what i wanted.

redadmiral · 30/04/2008 23:41

I'm alienated by anyone that is so sure that they are right.

expatinscotland · 30/04/2008 23:43

zippi, help me think of a good title for tomorrow night's episode of 'embarrassing bodies'.

expatinscotland · 30/04/2008 23:43

zippi, help me think of a good title for tomorrow night's episode of 'embarrassing bodies'.

zippitippitoes · 30/04/2008 23:44

oh me er wil offer lol

expatinscotland · 30/04/2008 23:45

i think including 'face like a smashed crab' somewhere in there is in order .

zippitippitoes · 30/04/2008 23:51

ah i answered you on the fanjo thread

welliemum · 01/05/2008 00:06

Just back briefly, although I'm working so can't hang around and anyway have said most of what I wanted to say.

There is an enormous double standard here. Threads like this saying "I formula feed and I'm happy about that" are seen as very positive, nice threads. I think so too - life with a baby is hard and it's good to see something going right.

But if someone were to post a thread saying "I breastfeed and I'm happy about that" there would be furore - look at the negative reactions to a basically factual thread. It would be a hundred times worse if breastfeeders actually said they were happy.

As I said, it has to work both ways. We all have to be able to listen to other people's experiences or else there's no point in talking.

One final point. The percentage of people who are 100% formula feeders or 100% breastfeeders is TINY. The vast majority of us (me included) have given babies both breastmilk and formula milk.

To pit breastfeeders against formula feeders isn't just needlessly fanning the flames of a hurtful debate, it actually has no bearing on the real life experience of feeding a baby.

zippitippitoes · 01/05/2008 00:10

my kids are 20m23 nand 24 and very low on the list of parental angst is who had breaste or formul;a

zippitippitoes · 01/05/2008 00:10

20 23 and 24 years old that is

verylittlecarrot · 01/05/2008 00:22

Well said, Welliemum.

You know what, ButterflyMcQueen?

Your implying that I am smug, or anyone else is smug...and that we think formula is poison / battery acid...

Is A BIG FAT UNHELPFUL AND UNIMAGINATIVE LIE.

Can you just not say stuff like that, please?

It's not big, and it's not clever. In fact it demeans you to invent such silly untruths. And frustrates the hell out of me having to deny your daft accusations.

And it falsely demonises a bunch of extremely helpful and supportive people. Nice one.

zippitippitoes · 01/05/2008 00:28

i tried so hard to bf my dd1 i ended up having psychotic hallucinations

i thought she was in bed with me when in fact she was downstairs with my mum and her dad

zippitippitoes · 01/05/2008 00:31

i'm enormously proud of her

and her sister

and her brother

zippitippitoes · 01/05/2008 00:32

and myself

butterflytelephone · 01/05/2008 01:10

I agree with everything Hunker posted, and I sympathise with her too.

The whole issue of breastfeeding is so complex.

Take the "happy mum = happy baby" phrase. It only makes sense for something where you think really both alternatives are roughly equal. No one would ever say

"I know I ought to use a car seat, but I like having my baby free to crawl round the car and come up to me while I'm driving, and happy mum = happy baby."

Clearly that would be absolutely ludicrous. So obviously "happy mum = happy baby" isn't something that's always a valid argument - it's only valid sometimes.

On the other hand, I think everyone would agree that:

"My toddler would like the park or the duck pond equally, but I prefer the park, and happy mum = happy baby."

is a perfectly valid reason to choose the park. So clearly "happy mum = happy baby" makes perfect sense sometimes.

So then we've got formula feeding. Is formula the equivalent of 'no car seat', or the equivalent of 'the park rather than the duck pond for a trip out'? I think how you answer that determines how you see the "happy mum = happy baby" idea. Personally I think a baby who isn't getting breastmilk is getting the slightly riskier of the two alternatives - so it's closer to them not having a car seat than to a trivial decision between equal alternatives like where to go for a walk. (Note I'm talking about the baby's experience here, not the parents' decisions - I'm not comparing decisions, I'm comparing outcomes - it's a really crucial difference.)

If someone says "breast is best but happy mum = happy baby" that's usually a big clue that they don't, deep down, really think "breast is best" at all - it's usually a sign that they believe breast milk and formula milk are pretty much as good as each other - because "happy mum = happy baby" only really makes sense in a context where both alternatives are pretty equal. We just don't use it where we think the alternatives are very different from each other, we only really use it where they're similar.

I'm not saying how happy a mum is is irrelevant, of course I'm not - it is relevant - but it can only have the single 'casting vote', as it were, if all other things are equal, which actually they're not, by default, when breastmilk and formula are compared. That's why a lot of people find "happy mum = happy baby" annoying - it doesn't make sense to someone who doesn't see the alternatives as that close to each other.

Of course one situation in which the alternatives get more equal is if breastfeeding is going badly wrong in an unrecoverable way - that moves formula up in comparison, and then when whether to continue or not is being weighed up every day, one day "happy mum = happy baby" may tip the balance - but at that point you're not comparing the same things as you're comparing when considering how to feed before a baby is born, for instance. So again, "happy mum = happy baby" can have its place even if you see breastmilk and formula as very different and not as equals by default - their relative positions can change as time goes on.

Personally I think that given how many people wish to breastfeed at first, the easiest way to make most people happy would be to make it possible for them actually to fulfil that wish. I think some people don't realize how common ways we have of talking - ways that are used to reassure people who are past the stage of having a choice (the rose-tinting of formula to avoid 'making people who now formula feed feel guilty') feed back indirectly into our culture and healthcare systems in ways that condemn more and more women to repeat the misery of unsuccessful breastfeeding. Not realizing that link, they can't see any reason why anyone would mind that sort of rose-tinting, and conclude that if someone does, it must be because they want to criticise people who formula feed. But that link is there, and that's why people get het up about the language - it makes some people whose feeding decisions are in the past feel better, but contributes to more people feeling miserable in the future.

mothtelephone · 01/05/2008 01:11

Though I should change my name to something different - I was butterflytelephone - as have just realized there's another butterfly on the thread, sorry.

AbricotsSecs · 01/05/2008 01:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

AbricotsSecs · 01/05/2008 01:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

welliemum · 01/05/2008 01:35

Well said, that insect. I think that's one of the best discussions of "happy mum=happy baby" I've ever read. It's one of those outwardly simple sayings that has all sorts of other things lurking under the surface.

Another point about it is that almost all women who start breastfeeding and then stop do so unwillingly, not out of choice. So however strong their reasons are for switching to formula - however much they can see that it's absolutely the right thing to do for the situation they're in - it's a bit insulting to suggest that they're "happy" about it, or that they're doing it to feel "happy".

A big decision like that is bound to cause strong feelings which IMO shouldn't be trivialised.

Swipe left for the next trending thread