I am really glad i didn't breastfeed

[gracemargaret]

I am mum to 2 ff dds (6 and 7 now) and as a new mum I actually didn't produce any breast milk at all (not very bovine). I now look back and am really resentful of how I was made to feel by nurses/health visitors etc. Firstly they let my dd go a whole 5 days without anything at all to "just give my milk a chance to come in" (it didn't despite her latching on like a dream) - After nights of her screaming hour after hour and only being able to calm her with teaspoons of boiled water I gave her some formula (which I'd had to go and buy as was completely unprepared having planned to BF) but was so ashamed (after HVs tales of mothers "giving up") I hid it when anyone came round. I even allowed myself to be rigged up to a feeding bottle with tubes that I had to stick to my boobs with surgical tape every feed (used for mums who adopt) but still nothing. At no point, despite producing no milk, crying when the HV visited and my dd not gaining weight, did anyone suggest giving her a bottle wich I now feel was a despicable way to treat a new mum and her baby. I eventually realised a few things though - Breastfeeding is ONLY best for baby IF IT IS BEST FOR MUM - Rather than my daughters having a tired mum, with cracked sore nipples, having to do all the feeds, unable to go out without leaking milk all over the place, they had a mum whose husband did half the feeds, who wasn't exhausted, and who now has two daughters who haven't been to the Drs for anything except immunisations and are working way above expected level for their ages at school. The way I look at it is that yes BF is natural but in the past women HAD to BF - we don't have to now - we are supposed to have CHOICE. By all means if it comes naturally to you and you don't get cracked nipples/mastitis/turned off by the thought of cabbage leaves in your bra then go ahead for the miniscule and debatable health benefit, however looking at the kind of things being posted in this forum I think a lot of women (and therefore babies) would be far better and happier "giving up" and hitting the bottle!!

I am delighted that your experience of bf was such a good one - how lovely. I am not judging you at all but am just making the point that I would hate to think there are women who experience all the problems you did and put up with them for fear of feeling they have "failed" in some way rather than because they truly want to carry on bf. I also look back at the times I ff my dds with a warm glow and pride - I just found it a bit easier than you did that's all.

As I have said many times I am pro choice that's all. I do still feel that the benefits over ff are small in relation to other factors (for example parenting, childhood diet, education) all of which I believe are larger determinants of a childs future health etc and therefore think the pressure I (and others I have spoken to) experienced to persist with bf despite problems (and for me an obvious lack of any breastmilk even after several weeks) is somewhat disproportionate. I am not however denying that breastmilk is natural and full of incredibly good stuff for babies.

I dont quite understand some of your posts gracemargaret. WHy would you expect milk after several weeks if you werent breastfeeding?
The thing is you didnt actually get the choice to breastfeed. If I were you I would have complained in writing to the hospital as that choice was taken away from you. Very few woman physically cant breastfeed and there are an awful lot of myths given to women by health professionals about breastfeeding.

I was rigged up to a feeding system with tubes stuck to my boobs with surgical tape - filled with formula and supposed to bring in my milk but didn't work. wth my 1st dd I didn't feel strong enough to tell my HV I had had enough because of the pressure I felt under and the worry I was failing my baby in some way. I am angry when I think back as I now know of course that I have not failed my dds and actually enjoyed some of the benefits I believe can be had from ff. I can not physically bf because of a hormonal imbalance which means I can not make breast milk. The choice I wanted was to bottle feed and not to be made to feel guilty for it - it was this choice I feel I was denied.

I still dont understand, sorry. How do you know you have a hormonal imbalance that means you cant breastfeed?

I could never express in the early days but that was no reflection on my breastfeeding. There is nothing more effecient than a baby correctly positioned at the breast.
In the first few days it would have been colostrum which would only be a few teaspoons anyway. I dont see how you could have got that out with a machine effeciently or even noticably.

If you wanted to formual feed why go through all of that. Your experience sounds horrendous. WHy not just tell the staff I dont want to breastfeed. I choose instead to give formula.

My experiences of hospitals were the opposite to you. They were very keen to put both on to the bottle and gave no support at all to breastfeed.

I also dont understand why your experiences would make you really glad you didnt breastfeed. If you had been able to breastfeed successfully then would you have continued? It seems that choice wasnt there for you rather than you purposely chose it.

Sorry but I had a giggle at your bovine comment. Formula is cows milk.

The thing is, people say "bfing is is such a small part of the bigger picture", by the same token the sore nipples, engorgement etc. for most mothers (I say that very emphatically, i realise this is not true for everyone) is also such a small length of time in the potential bfing experience, and if people can just power through those first few weeks (ok, months) the reward is so worthwhile.

Those of us who have come out the other side know that which is why we are so passionate about supporting struggling mothers and encouraging them to carry on for as long as they can.

So OP I feel terrible that you had such a difficult time, and didn't have the support that you needed, but I don't agree with your sentiments.

The other side of the coin is that sometimes we do have to make sacrifices for our children. Most of us would judge people who outsourced pregnancy and childbirth out of convenience, in some respects bfing can be seen in the same light. I massively caveat this by restricting it to the idea of bfing or not as a choice of convenience, I do not generalise this to people who cannot bf for whatever reasons, or those who try and cannot continue.

I persisted for over 6 weeks with the supplementary feeding system and my dd was ironically latching on like a dream. I know because of other health issues I have had that the likelihood is that the hormonal imbablance is most likely to have contributed to me being unable to produce breast milk. Women wishing not to bf often have to take medication to dry up their supply I believe - I had no supply. The reason I did not tell my HV stongly enough (although did try) that I had had enough was because of the pressure I felt and this is the point I have made all along - there should be support not pressure and an understanding that whatever is best for mum is probably overall going to be best for baby too. No new mum should be made to feel guilty about an act as loving and important as feeding their own child - irrespective of the method they choose.

I really wouldnt assume that the baby was latching on properly and that you had a hormonal imbalance that meant you had no milk. If you were attatching yourself to a machine for 6 weeks I guess the mws assumed from this that you really did want to breastfeed.
How often were you going on the machine in 24 hours?

Op, thats great

wheresthehamster I have a question, if milk takes longer than 5 days to come in, what do you do? Just keep offering the breast to your baby. Does that keep them content/happy/settled etc?

Woll probably be flamed here but wtf.

I planned a homebirth after my last cs. Didnt happen another emcs. I was DETERMINED to bf. DETERMINED. I felt like a failure at not having a homebirth and so this was definately happening.

Except....everytime I tried to feed my baby she screamed manically. I mean sheer terror. Not when i held her, just when I stuffed my ginormous boobs in her mouth.

I had 3 breastfeeding experts at various points (home and bf clinic) and told that I was doing everything right and they couldnt understand it. and cup fed expressed breast milk for 3 weeks and finally bottle fed expressed milk for a further month. It is exhausting expressing, then feeding and worse - making up formula. I was distraught and had severe PND and felt like a failure - especially by those that did BF who just assumed I didnt try hard enough. i am crying now (18 months on) at the thought that i didnt BF and what if I had just relaxed a bit more instead of being so desperate.

It enrages me to think that other women that found bf reasonably natural could act as if i had given my baby fruit shoots instead of a bottle of expressed milk. And i find the smugness abhorent of those that just assume I was lazy or ignorant.

I don't understand why being attached to a machine with formula would help your milk come in, I have honestly never heard of such a machine, sounds terrible to give a mother who is struggling with BFing a machine to hook herself up to, to give a baby formula. Talk about making you feel worse.

The minute formula is given especially at the days old stage I believe BFing is doomed unless you are very lucky and determined.

I honestly believe the majority of woman can BF if given the right support especially in the early days and this is backed up in cultures where BFing is the norm and women have grown up seeing Mums, Aunts etc BF and have adequate support in those first few weeks.

The technique for getting milk out of a bottle and out of breasts is different too so giving formula from a bottle in the first few weeks can cause problems for breastfeeding too. How often were you pumping?

TicTok I know, I know it's logistically impossible - see my other posts on the subject on this thread!

But re the 'medicalisation of infant feeding choices' - that's an interesting one. Most people on this thread who have said they 'couldn't' bfeed (op included) have said it was for 'medical' reasons, but that they felt others thought they had not tried hard enough. Perhaps medicalisation of ffing would a) normalise breastfeeding (ie you only ffeed if there is something wrong healthwise) and b) would make that minority who do HAVE to ffeed feel less judged - after all, it would be an illness not a lack of effort iyswim.

But, as i said in earlier posts, i know this is all hypothetical and could never happen!

i breastfed my ds for 6 months and now am currently breastfeeding ds 2.I did find it very difficult to begin with but knew it was best for them and so wanted to continue for that reason. I remember with ds standing in the shopping isle and staring at the formula in tears.I ended up giving ds one bottle of formula a day this gave me a break and made me a happier breastfeeder. However it was often frowned by hv and i felt really angry at this.the guily and pressure you made to feel if you give up.Another thing i felt angered by was women who didnt breastfeed for god knows whatever reason mil being one of them and trying to justify their choice by saying i didnt breastfeed and my kids are alright or you only need to breastfeed for 2 wks (note this is the women who smoked in pregnancy and tried to tell me it doesnt do harm).It just seems we are damed if we do and damned if we dont. Breastfeeding is best for baby and that is fact so i wish people who didnt breastfeed encourage those who are-even if it didnt work for them instead of being negative about it.You dont neeed to feel guilty or bad about any choices you make if you tried your best.Motherhood is hard as it is so we dont need to be critical of each others choices.

just wondering if any one knows any actual FACTS about how what you eat, drink etc effects bf if at all? Someone also said they thought that if you smoke that is bad too? I think the important thing with feeding your baby is eye contact, love, comfort as well as the sustenence aspect obviously! I bf both my children (still am dd - she's 6 months now) but can't see anything wrong with ff AT ALL - why does everyone get so het up about it?

bluewolf, bm is produced specifically for your baby, and adapts according to her needs.
Formula has certain health risks - these aren't theoretical or anecdotal and have been proved.

But what effect does drinking alcohol or coffee have, and does smoking cigerettes (no where near the baby) effect bf?

It is better to smoke and breastfeed than not to breastfeed. You can drink alcohol and coffee etc. You shouldnt get plastered but you shouldnt anyway if looking after a baby.

Gracemargaret, can you please explain why you were not honest with your HV. You said that you hid the fact that you had formula fed your baby at times from everyone and that you allowed ourself to be rigged up to a supplemental feeding system.

If you were not honest with them that you would rather move to ff, but led them to believe that you wanted to persevere with bfing, so they were only doing what they thought you wanted to do.

I am not saying otoh that they were trained well enough to spot that you had a deeper underlying problem and they probably should have referred you to someone else who were better trained that they were.

Still your honesty with them on your part was a vital part of the equation. The truth is more important than that you feeling pressured to bf. Honesty at this time came before how you imagined they would view your decision. Their job was to support you, not judge you. And if they judged you, you would be wholly within your right to make a complaint to your PCT.

You cannot complain about the system or bfers or whoever until you come to an acceptance that your behaviour, despite the misguided good intention, played a role in their action.

A hv's job is to support your feeding choice whatever that is so all you needed to do is say so!

Someone below made the valid point which I would like to highlight: that a bf support worker's role is not to give a woman permission to stop or continue breastfeeding. Her role is to provide evidence based information regarding either feeding method if asked for and to provide support regarding whichever method she chooses. The decision to stop is one a mother must make for herself.

And relax

Rest assured I couldn't give a toss how you feed your kids and it's no ones business how I feed mine.

I had to look uo bovine, so if my kids are stupid it more likley to be due to their mother than the fact they are bottlefed

Morespamthanglam - I don't think that any BF on MN judges those that try to BF but can't (for whatever reason, health, pnd, lack of support etc). I think they bemoan the fact that there is not sufficient support or knowledge out there and that women are lead to believe things that are often incorrect (that formula is as good as BM, that you can BF to a schedule, that your baby hasn't gained enough weight and you need to supplement...). You won't find many that will say if you are stuggling "just give him/her a bottle" because they know (from the experiences of other posters) that this can sabotage BF and they presume that the Mum wants to continue BF. They will give the facts about BF and FF even though they are not always palatable because those facts are true and they want women to be informed. I don't think that they are smug - they are always quick to give advice to those who are struggling.

I do sometimes feel sad when I hear a Mum-to-be dismissing BF out of hand without even wanting to try it - I think that is a great shame and perhaps I do judge those women a little, even a few days of colostrum is better than nothing.

I am so sorry you had such an appalling experience.

GraceM - I believe hospitals MUST keep maternity notes for 25yrs (unless a very recent thing) I am seriously shocked that both they and as a mother you appeared to have let baby go 5 days without anything! I do understand though as a new mother of first or whatever number baby, we are always vulnerable to the info/care we received from those looking after us. (I was told first time around by some daft N Nurse the reason I could not BF properly was because I had a boy and an ES.. um yeah what about the jaundice that they kept missing and I kept on about too I'd be tempted to ask for a copy/look to come to terms with your resentment and speak to someone properly about it. Having number 2 for me opened the door to my frustrations again about my care first time around and from the moment I decided to ff DS1 to before birth of number 2 I had been fine .. 6/7 yrs later and you post, because of what you read on this forum?.. I don't see much in chat at the moment.. and I know come 6/7 yrs time I should have truly left this area for posting on, though of course appreciate it can be enlightening to have a look around each subject area. I don't see how you could be glad to have not BF as that was not a road you could experience to lead you to come to a decision, you may still have chosen ff and that is still your choice.

I really hope you wrote to complain about your treatment afterwards, it would have been a way to help others after you in a similar position.

Having ff DS1 and BFeeding now, I agree there is tons of pressue no matter what decision one makes. I don't understand it, we go through the hard work that goes with giving birth, change of role, life and immediately everyone gets obsessed with how everyone else feeds their babies and puts them into a 'box' according to how they feed.. sigh.. why not just respect each decision, give the facts as they are, and support a mother/parents on whatever they go for.. terribly emotive subject!

MoreSpam - which bf are enraging you, no-one's saying that ff is like giving your child fruit shoots. Why are you so angry that women who have and women who haven't bf want other women to have the support they need to be successful at something that can be bloody hard work and frustrating at times, as well as being (IMHE) deeply rewarding and satisfying at others - and FREE.

How much does it cost to ff a baby? Tins are £8 approx aren't they?

I don't condemn anyone for ff, how do you know other bf mums are condemning you, or think you are lazy or ignorant? Sometimes IMO when mums give other mums 'the look' it's not because they're being judgmental it's because they're thinking, 'cor, I know that's hard'. Usually the condemnation is the other way round and ff condemn the minority of bf IME.

I am so sorry you had a really traumatic experience and I'm sure most on here will feel the same way.

For me it's not about making ff mothers feel bad about what they're doing, but giving more choice to women and letting them have all the facts and support so they CAN persevere like you and OP did. Stop worrying about others' opinions. We all parent differently under different circumstances with different babies. And we're all right (at times )

I hope that in the future my dd will have access to the information, the training and the support of women and HPs so that she can make her own informed choice about how she wants to feed her child BEFORE birth, with all the facts at her finger tips, including the one that every new born brings - you are going to be VERY VERY tired for the next X months, no matter what you do. That is if she does not have a medical condition that precludes having a choice.

Sorry Spam - money thing was a random thought, I'm genuinely curios about that one.