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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

A reason not to BF that I had no answer for, any thoughts?

242 replies

bohemianbint · 25/03/2008 20:32

I recently qualified as a peer counsellor and the training was great. However, I met up with a friend of mine the other day whose daughter is about a month old.

She had BF up until the day before I met her but decided to pack it in and had just started FF. Her reason was that she already has a son who is 11, is very busy and didn't have the time to physically sit all day and BF.

I didn't say anything, as she wasn't asking for advice, she'd made the decision and had already acted on it. But it struck me that I have no idea what to say to someone who sites this as a reason to give up? I remember when DS went through growth spurts just sitting on the sofa literally all day with my boobs out and everything else went to pot, and whilst this didn't bother me I can see how it would be a deal breaker for some people.

So what can you say to that? Obviously FF is inconvenient in the prep time and faff, but does it eliminate that all day sitting around during a growth spurt? Interested to hear what you think...

OP posts:
aGalChangedHerName · 26/03/2008 07:53

Well having FF ds1 and bf my other 3 dc it takes much longer to Ff than bf imo.

I remember sitting with ds1 wishing he would hurry up sometimes but my bf dc seemed to be much quicker. Could chat on phone/read a book with my bf dc mind you. Was difficult/impossible to do anything else when i was FF.

If someone has made up their mind not sure you could really have said anything to her tho.

yurt1 · 26/03/2008 08:04

I think the danger - if someone really can't sit down for an entire feed is that the extra pressure "you can do it if you put the effort in" could tip someone over the edge. My midwife was pretty helpful in that she said 'Look you've fed a lot before, your milk supply is low, you know that in order to build up your milk supply you are going to have to give dx amount of time to feeding and you need to ask yourself whether in your situation that is possible'. It actually wasn't imo.

I didn't contact a breastfeeding counsellor because I knew that they would only focus on how to the breastfeeding side (which wasn't the problem as such- baby was latched on properly, milk supply was low but I knew how to increase that) but they wouldn't 'get' the whole life with a severely autistic child thing. Telling me 'you have to sit and feed' wouldn't have been useful because I couldn't.

From a what do you do point of view it was very helpful for me to have someone recognise the situation (and bring it up actually) and then give me advice on preserving the milk supply I had for as long as possible whilst mixed feeding. And to give other tips on increasing milk supply (things I could do- not sit in bed and just feed for days).

I think giving someone the impression that it could be done if they just tried a little bit harder (without saying how you parcel up and ignore the rest of your life that's getting in the way) has the potential to be enormously damaging.

I mean look at this thread. I read the OP - thought that's exactly the reason I gave up. Post my experiences and get told they're irrelevant and priorities must have been wrong/could have tried harder/just looking for an excuse.

Sabire · 26/03/2008 08:16

Yurt1 - I can't know the particular challenges of your situation. Everyone has limits to what they can cope with.

That said, all I know is that women around me with big families and lots of personal problems manage to breastfeed their younger children, which shows me that it's possible. This is what the vast majority of women around the world do. For me that suggests that the ordinary challenges of family life don't need to be a barrier to breastfeeding. Emotional difficulties, poor health and disability pose different barriers and these sometimes are insuperable.

smallwhitecat - its not sanctimony, it's just the truth. Women need to know it's possible and that there are lots of people out there doing it who feel they have a reasonable quality of life.

BumperliciousAteTooManyEggs · 26/03/2008 08:27

I understand yurt, that's why I said if they can and want to put the effort in. Some people can't or don't want to, for whatever reason.

It's a fine balance between giving people hope and reassurance that it can be done, and making them feel like they haven't tried hard enough if it can't. Yours is an interesting point though yurt, about the advice you needed, and one i will bear in mind.

FioFio · 26/03/2008 08:31

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yurt1 · 26/03/2008 08:36

I think its worth really looking at the whole situation Bumperlicious as well. I had successfully breastfed for over 3 years before having ds3. I'd stopped feeding ds2 during my pregnancy with ds3. The midwife's advice was helpful because she took that into account. She noted that I knew how easy breastfeeding was (and in a busy household I found ff way way way more of a pain in the arse - these days ds1 adds stuff to bottles/kettles (eg washing up liquid) so it would be even more of a nightmare). Her advice was useful because it really did take in our situation as a whole. I think that's essential to be an effective counsellor of any sort.

3 years previously I successfully established bfeeding with ds2 when ds1 was being diagnosed with autism, going crazy, up all night (same reaction as with ds3) and moving house - and 300 miles. Also a section and a very sleepy ds2. The added problem with ds3 was poor milk supply and it was enough to make the difference because I just didn't have the time to devote to the 'cure' for that. On the surface 2 very similar situations (although ds1 was easier at 2 than 5) but one difference- poor milk supply - and a big difference in what could be done.

bozza · 26/03/2008 08:37

Yurt I understand your reasons and remember some of your threads from the time. But surely a NT 11yo is not quite the same. When I was breastfeeding DD I would sit and read a story to DS who was 3. Of course, inevitably he would need his bottom wiping half way through most feeds. But he is 7 now and I am sure that the attention he needs - help with homework, chat about his day, reading his reading book could be done while breastfeeding.

TrinityTheProgressingRhino · 26/03/2008 08:40

I think it sounds like just an excuse
If she didn't want o bf anymore then that is up to her
BUT it is perfectly possible to do it with subsequent children
I managed to bf gecko (and still am) and when she was born I had a 6 year old and 22 month old to look after aswell

FioFio · 26/03/2008 08:42

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yurt1 · 26/03/2008 08:43

Oh yes I'm sure. But i think if you're a counsellor you have to accept what the other person is telling you if it's too busy for them then you could kind of explore why.

I suppose it's like some friends I have can't breastfeed and talk on the phone at the same time (which I always found distinctly odd) but me saying 'well i can' would be irrelevant.

I wonder if she was embarrassed about feeding in front of her 11 year old so had to feed upstairs or something. That can make each feed feel a lot longer and a lot more difficult.

StealthPolarBear · 26/03/2008 08:47

I have bf my DS and he did until probably 6 months old have mammoth feeding sessions, and wanted to feed about every 2 hours.
I have to say it worries me if I have another one how I would manage. I would try the sling though - didn't quite dare this time
I don't understand why ff is quicker though (genuine question) - do they finish the bottle faster or go longer between feeds - is that all babies or just some of them?

yurt1 · 26/03/2008 08:50

Depends on the baby Stealth. But ds3 could gulp down a bottle. Also because my milk supply was so low it was very difficult to get enough breastmilk into him to fill him so had to feed at shorter intervals.

I think if breastfeeding is well established with ample milk there's not necessarily much difference in feeding time.

And of course if you're feeding in a separate room then you sit there thinking about everything that needs doing (I never bothered- whipped them out anywhere, but I wonder about the woman with the 11 year old).

JodieG1 · 26/03/2008 08:52

You have to feed them one way or another so she would still be sitting around bottle feeding, only now she'll have to prepare bottles, sterlise, buy milk as well and sit around. Seems to me that takes longer than bf does.

princessosyth · 26/03/2008 09:05

The problem is that no one really discusses the practialities of bf because they don't want to put you off. So when you do start bfing and spend hours a day just feeding you think it is because you are doing it wrong and you don't understand that it will get better.

When I was pregnant a mum came and bfed her baby in our antenatal class, she said that for the first 6 weeks she only only left the house once because she was feeding all the time, there were lots of audible gasps around the room and after she left our HV said that actually staying in for 6 weeks was over the top and we were all encouraged to just carry on as normal. I remember when my midwife came out on day 4 (day after I left hospital) I was encouraged to have a break and go out for dinner with dh even though I was struggling very badly with establishing bfing. I think that the mum in our antenatal class had the right attitude and mums should be told that the first 6 weeks are bloody hard and that you should just surrender to it and accept that you won't be doing much else.

I say this as a failed bfeeder, I just wish I knew then what I know now...

zippitippitoes · 26/03/2008 09:15

don't people weigh up decisions and take the best compromise...if someone decides to feed one way or another then it is up to them

it's always hard amking decisions

once made then it is better not to undermione them

if you change from breastfeeding to formula feeding at some point then concentrate on new stuff

there are always plenty of things in life to worry about

how baby is fed is important but taken in a whole life context it does become les so

blueshoes · 26/03/2008 09:16

Bohemianbint, I assume your friend knew you were a peer supporter and needed to have a ready made excuse to explain to you why she was not bf-ing.

The fact is, as a bf-ing peer supporter, you would in the course of your work be preaching to the converted, who just need a little help. You would not generally be convincing someone of the benefits of bf-ing from scratch.

I think your friend just wanted to avoid an awkward conversation with you and was cutting it off at the pass. I would not try to convince her otherwise beyond the tiniest feelers. I am a great believer of going with the flow v. strict routine but if a friend was quite convinced about routines, I would generally just nod - not my place.

Did she bf her ds for a significant amount of time to make an informed decision?

FioFio · 26/03/2008 09:21

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bozza · 26/03/2008 09:24

That is an interesting point yurt. It had not really occurred to me. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with breastfeeding in front of an 11yo - not that it is going to happen, mind you! I had just assumed that she could breastfeed and carry on doing the things that an 11yo needs quite easily - more easily than with a younger child that has more physical needs to be met IYSWIM. But obviously not if she is shut up in her bedroom.

And I used to love combining phone and breastfeeding. Used to set myself up with drink, book, remote, phone before I started.

LyraSilvertongue · 26/03/2008 09:27

Wouldn't mixed feeding be an option in these circs? BF morning and night, ff during the day? Better than giving up bf altogether imo.

zippitippitoes · 26/03/2008 09:28

small children are easier to manage i think because you have much more control over them as they get older they are actually more demanding and more mentally draining

at least some are

that is the rub all families ahve different dynamics and ime all kids have different ages when they are more amneable and less stressful

if you have a few kids this gets complicated

striving for balance is best i think and i agree she probably felt a bit self conscious knowing your enthusiasm for bf and didnt want to get into a discussion about her decision

yurt1 · 26/03/2008 09:28

Yes I could sit and feed a child and help my 6 year old with homework. Then sit at the dinner table and feed whilst my 6 year old ate (not my ASD son as he needs feeding and skips off all over the place, but imagining normal life for the moment) but if my 6 year old was 11 would I want to be breastfeeding at those times? I don;'t know. I'd probably be fine about it but my 11 year old might be mortified.

I've fed everywhere but I always felt embarrassed feeding in front of my FIL.

yurt1 · 26/03/2008 09:30

Yep I agree Lyra- I think mixed feeding is better than giving up but it's very hard to get advice on mixed feeding. Bfeeding counsellors will only (ime) advise on exclusive breastfeeding. HV etc can be more helpful

FioFio · 26/03/2008 09:31

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Peachy · 26/03/2008 09:31

There are good reasons not to BF but that's not one of them- that's one that can be worked around. I fully intend to attempt to BF this baby despite having 3 fairly small boys (8, 7, 4.5) 2 of whom are ASD- I'll just manage to fit in the time factor. The reason I may give up is that there is some suggestion that gluten and dairy could be passed through my milk to baby so increasing the chances of another child with ASD- there's minimal research but the suggestion is enough for me, and I will be feeding as long as I can mange to kmaintain an extremely restricted diet (have you seen the costs of free from foods??!). If it gets too much, then he will go to FF (soya) but I will BF as long on the diet as I can manage

Peachy · 26/03/2008 09:31

There are good reasons not to BF but that's not one of them- that's one that can be worked around. I fully intend to attempt to BF this baby despite having 3 fairly small boys (8, 7, 4.5) 2 of whom are ASD- I'll just manage to fit in the time factor. The reason I may give up is that there is some suggestion that gluten and dairy could be passed through my milk to baby so increasing the chances of another child with ASD- there's minimal research but the suggestion is enough for me, and I will be feeding as long as I can mange to kmaintain an extremely restricted diet (have you seen the costs of free from foods??!). If it gets too much, then he will go to FF (soya) but I will BF as long on the diet as I can manage