NON personal discussion about breastfeeding rates <no mud slinging allowed>

[JingleyJen]

Instead of personal stories and family circumstances I am really interested in the potential reasons why in this country are breastfeeding rates so much lower than in other countries?

Surely in other countries boobs are sexual things as well so it can't just be that.

Is it that ever downward spiral that as fewer women breastfeed that it is hidden and therefore fewer women feel comfortable with the whole thing?

I don't think it is the availability of formula

Have there been studies done on this? (sure there have but don't know where to find them)

Is the success rate of mothers who have chosen to breastfeed truly dependent on the support network around them - or are there really an increasing number of women whose milk doesn't come in - and why could that be the case?

This is NOT a thread for the wrongs and rights of breastfeeding vs formula it is more a question of how things have got to this stage.

Anyone?

This thread has been very enlightening and got me remembering comments/experiences that I ignored about BF but that other people might have taken to heart/trusted.
I too now remember being told to give ff in a cup when ds was a day old as he hadn't fed for 8 hours (as he was sleeping all day having been awake feeding all night).
I think it will be a long time before attitudes significantly change, unfortunately.

Fascinating thread. My view is that there needs to be much more consistency in the message from healthcare professionals - it shouldn't just be down to good luck that you get the support you need, and I get the distinct impression in some cases that they're under pressure to cover their backs if a baby is not gaining weight as quickly as they 'should').

The onus is also too much on the individual to look for help and advice in those very difficult early days, rather than always being offered it as a matter of course. I think that antenatal classes could do much more in the way of myth-busting and good practical advice for your first few weeks with a new baby, rather than focussing almost exclusively on the birth itself.

On a positive note, if normalisation is the answer, then things will be bound to improve in 20 or so years time as a generation of MN-ers children start having their own children!

It's an interesting one, normalisation. My take on it is that every woman who breastfeeds, even for a short period, is increasing the likelihood that her own daughter will breastfeed too. My mum bf four of us for about 5 months each, and said that no-one really suggested weaning us, it's just she didn't really know what you were "supposed" to do and no-one else she knew bf at all. My sister and I bf, she for 18 months, me for 15, and among the mums I know it was not unusual to continue for 6 months plus. The fact that you know other people who are still feeding their babies means that you know there is nothing "odd" about it. But I recognise that it's not like this all over the UK....

just sat here pondering - is there a difference in rates between Muslim countries and non Muslim countries? Just thinking that there is alot of modesty encouraged for the ladies - does that just change breastfeeding in public or does it make no difference at all??

When Mil had dh and sil in the 60's , she was brought round some tablets - luckily she asked what they were for - to dry up her milk as the mw's assumed that she would be using bottles. She said she was the only one amongst her peers who breastfed.

i have just had a skim of the thread - v interesting. I used to facilitate personal dev and health ed classes in scholls and community settings - all on sexual health and realtionships. we made a point of including info and discussion on bf. it used to shock me that NONE of these young woman had seen / known anyone in extended families who bf. it was an alien concept to them and something that only "hippies" did. (their words - not mine). when we worked with preg teens - again we covered it but used to come up against so much oppostion from families and MWs - "dont waste time talking about that as none of them will do it."

i have now bf dd for 9 mths. never thought we would make it this long. my mother didnt breastfeed any of her 4 kids but has been so supportive. even my dad is now fully behind the idea.

My mother was also given a tablet to "dry up her milk" when she had me. She assumed they still existed and when I tragically failed to get right support to BF DD she told me to go to the docs to get the same pill rather than go through the pain of letting it dry up naturally. I was far too and , and was quite sure such things did not exist anymore. She is also obsessed that my sister, who isn't really struggling to BF, but is just a natural worrywort and constantly moaning about DD not getting enough milk, should just stop and put DD on the bottle - "she'd be so much happier and less stressed!". I pointed out to her that FF my DD did not stop me worrying about how much she was feeding IN THE SLIGHTEST so she should just leave my sister alone about it. It's a mentality that generations before us didn't question, and the trickle down effect has been pretty devastating. I have thankfully managed to avoid all my mums misplaced "helpful advice" with DS and am still BF'ing at 6 months.

no stats or anything, but I can tell you that the prophet mohammed was in favour of extended bf so many muslim women will bf. i hardly ever saw anyone bf in public though, a lot of women would express to do public feeds, but that is my personal observation only.

I believe that bf is encouraged to 2 years but not beyond this in Islam.

are there stats on BF in countries with varying religions?

I have a Muslim friends with 5 children who breastfed 3 stpping at various times but the longest being 2.5 years and bottlefed 2. Good for mohammed.

Teddimac I have a DD of 21 and a DD of 10 months old. If anything I would say that more of DD1's contemporaries were BF than DD2's.

I'm sure someone will have the official figures but IME BF rates have dropped horribly in the last 20 years.

Incidentally I BF my 4 older children for 15 months each yet they still found it "disgusting" when I first started BF DD2. Now part of that is the same disgust at their parents still having sex (LOL) but this is children whose formative years were spent watching me BF their younger brothers.

Hopefully I have now re-educated them that it is normal..

In response to the OP, I can't imagine a whole generation of women is just not producing milk anymore.
A lot of women give up BFing because of lack of support- they are just not made aware of how painful, difficult, and lonely it can get. The whole emphasis on how 'natural' it is fails to address the fact that it is also hard work- at the beginning at least. It gets progressively easier as time goes by, and both mother and child get the hang of it. Not being told, though, can be enough for a lot of 1st-time mothers to give up.

And sadly for those women who decide to keep BFing, there are general attitudes to contend with.
BF in public in this country is still a taboo. You get funny looks and comments, and if you'd rather not BF in public to start with (some babies are quite fussy and easily distracted in busy enviroments) there is just nowhere to go. In America there are great BFing lounges in department stores, with comfortable chairs etc everywhere you go. In the UK I have only seen this in John Lewis.

evenhope, the stats are the reverse of your experience - I think someone posted a link, but you can search for Infant Feeding 2005 on the Dept of Health website.

There are significantly more women initiating breastfeeding in 2005 than 20 years before, and while there is still a drop off, there are more babie breastfed at every age, not just at the beginning.

The explanation for your experience is probably a statistical accident. Or maybe you have moved house. Or maybe you are mixing with different people...or something. But the survey figures are pretty accurate - they use a large number base.

Havent read all the messages but to the OP.

For me - the largest influence was my background. I am british-indian and every female in my family has breastfed - I have not yet found one who has ff. Many were extended bfeeders, feeding for up to 2 years! So when I found it tough going, I had a fantastic support network to encourage me - both from the men and the women.

I was talking to my mum about where this culture stemmed from and in India - breastfeeding is the norm. Public bfeeding is an everyday occurence and no one bats an eyelid. Affordability has a large part to play - and majority of people cannot afford ff, so breast feed is the norm and as a result, is totally accepted.

My MIL on the other hand found it all very odd and no one she knows bfed their bubs.

dal, that works both ways - I know somebody who has family from India and the women who have come over to live here see bf as something women in "the villages back home" do - ie a bit primitive

oh hunker, how terribly sad

well in my (down to earth) family, we positively embrace primitive . a great deal of wisdom has been passed down the generations and I don't knock any of it.

Fio, I wrote about this recently This article gets about the most hits on the blog - so it's touched a nerve somewhere. More than one person has emailed me to say they're emailing it to all the pregnant women they know!

I can't remember if someone has posted a link to stats downthread, but 78 per cent of women initiate breastfeding in England (it's 76 per cent across the UK).

www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and-lifestyles/infant-feeding/infant-feeding-su rvey-2005

If you read more than the basics, you'll see that something like one in 10 breastfeeding mothers give formula milk as well on the very first day. Early supplementing is not good for breastfeeding....and we do it far too often in the UK.

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