NON personal discussion about breastfeeding rates <no mud slinging allowed>

[JingleyJen]

Instead of personal stories and family circumstances I am really interested in the potential reasons why in this country are breastfeeding rates so much lower than in other countries?

Surely in other countries boobs are sexual things as well so it can't just be that.

Is it that ever downward spiral that as fewer women breastfeed that it is hidden and therefore fewer women feel comfortable with the whole thing?

I don't think it is the availability of formula

Have there been studies done on this? (sure there have but don't know where to find them)

Is the success rate of mothers who have chosen to breastfeed truly dependent on the support network around them - or are there really an increasing number of women whose milk doesn't come in - and why could that be the case?

This is NOT a thread for the wrongs and rights of breastfeeding vs formula it is more a question of how things have got to this stage.

Anyone?

[taffy101]

i think we may be onto an answer hey!

[Indith]

It is a very interesting subject. I think the points made about formula being scientific are very valid. My mother was not bf and she had to be fed on goat milk based formula as she was allergic to cows milk. I don't know why my gran didn't bf but I remember the allergy thing being mentioned as a faff, as obviously it was more difficult getting the right formula.

My mum bf for a couple of weeks with my sister and I but then switched. When I had ds she commented on the frequency of his feeding and was interested by what i told her about feeding. She didn't know at all that it was perfectly normal for a newborn to be permanently at the breast, especially in the evenings and she had switched to bottles after we had become hungry very soon after a feed, believing that it meant that she didn't have enough milk.

What I find interesting (and terrible) is that the only reason I knew that, and was so confident in my ability to feed and to produce the right amount of milk was die to MN. At no time at all in my NHS parent craft classes, with its pro bf bias that is supposed to teach you all about bf did it say that cluster feeding is normal. At no point did they talk about growth spurts. At no point did they say that it is a supply and demand thing.

In short, I believe it is a combination thing. Formula was all new and exciting and better and scientific when it first came out. So the richer bought it, and in time the poor did too because in a class system the poor buy into the richer lifestyle.

So now we have a situation where there are genrations who have not fed and so do not have the advice to pass on and women are left without the support that they need. Because even those of us (like myself) who have had an easy ride of things know that bf is hard, it is draining, and it can be very frustrating. And so now it does come down to the system being flawed. Without a system which can educate mothers to be on feeding (and actually do it, cluster feeding, growth spurts and all) and provide the follow up support then we will struggle to improve our appalling bf statistics.

[JingleyJen]

Marshmellow - Great point - I think that women's traditional roles are generally now more shared in a partnership pregnancy and breastfeeding are pretty much the only thing that can not.
Also the freedom we have to move around and go out and about is so much greater that we perhaps feel the loss of that more than our mothers and grandmothers did.
I do think that education whilst at school and beyond should include facts about breastfeeding - a friend of mine gave up BF at 3 days although she had enjoyed it to that point because all of a sudden overnight her boobs got all full and leaked a bit on the sheets it freaked her out and she stopped. Sadly I didn't know about it until a week or so later so had no way of letting her know that what she experienced was totally normal and wouldn't last for long.

[VVVQV]

Oh I had that too taffy. DD had gained 6oz at 12 days (I think most babies lose and then gain back so are level at 14 days approx??), and the HV was shocked and surprised that I was exclusively b/feeding her. Particularly because she was 9lb 13oz when she was born. In fact for the first 6 months the HV would look at me quizzically when I said I was b/feeding only. She wouldnt believe DD was gaining so well and going from 95th to 99th centile.

[lizzytee]

Rowlers

You can find out up to date info by typing "infant feeding survey 2005" into google.

[Rowlers]

Just looked on National Statistics online. Not much info but they link rates of bf at birth to age of mother (much greater if over 30) and education (greater if left school at 18 as opposed to 16)
Something like 40% in England still bf at 6 months but no stats given as to make of of this 40%.

[JingleyJen]

brilliant - thanks ladies!

[VVVQV]

Education re b/feeding at school is necessary, I think.

[taffy101]

This thread is fascinating and sad all at the same time

[taffy101]

I too think educating about bf at school would be a good idea.

[taffy101]

Mnetters should educate schools!

[Indith]

VVV ds didn't lose any weight either, the HV grilled us on what scales the MW had used and if they were broken!

[AhhChewww]

My mother was in early twenties when she had me and she told me I was bottle fed from birth

I am in my early thirties and gave birth to my dd 8 months ago. I have been exclusively breast feeding her and intend to carry on as long as she wants.

My mother was initially quite unsupportive about my breastfeeding but she stopped making comments and suggesting giving dd formula after my firm request to stop undermining my choice.
Since then seeing that my dd was obviously thriving on breastfeeding and what a beautiful and close experience it is for both of us my mother started actually saying to me that she regrets formula feeding. She blamed the fact that she was young, very tired and didn't have time to sit for hours to feed me.

But I suspect the main reason why my mother didn't even attempt to breast feed me was lack of support from her mother (my grandmother). Every time I spoken to my grand mother after having my dd she was asking me when I start giving her 'proper milk' (ie formula) and stop feeding her 'this filth' (ie breast milk)

[lizzytee]

I agree taffy....like the fact that some of the best stuff written on this subject is out of print or only available from Amazon...like the fact that formula milk companies spend ten times as much promoting their products as the government does on promoting breastfeeding....and that many healthcare workers so obviously lack any decent training in bf support meaning that mothers are misinformed and/or let down

[evenhope]

I second the "community" aspect. I used to go to play with the boy next door. His baby brother was born when I was 6 and I clearly remember watching his mother BF. Then my cousin was born when I was 11 and again my aunt BF him in front of us. I don't remember any fuss being made about it- it was just presented as the "normal" way to feed a new baby.

So when I was expecting my first I didn't even think about not BF (although I was surprised how hard it was..)

[lizzytee]

AhhChewww

ERK! Not sure how I'd respond to that....

[taffy101]

ahhchewww at your grandmother

[taffy101]

Well, personally, I hope i have been a positive role model to general members of the public on this issue

[Indith]

The points made about women having more freedom these days are very true. Ds was not a bottle kind of guy, and to be honest I would always be far too lazy to actually get round to expressing and I did have times of dreaming about a baby who would just take a bottle for once so I could do something really daring like go to the cinema. I can see that for many people that would make them stop feeding.

Not wanting to start a fight on this wonderful thread but do we think there is an "optimum" age? Teen mums I think do tend to ff, teens value freedom, it is an age thing, we have all been there. No mud needs to be slung. But do older mums quit before younger (but not teen) mums? I'm a young mum and can't imagine how it must feel for an older mum to have had perhaps 15 years of woking adult life before suddenly being at the beck and call of a baby. Does the loss of freedom mean more to some groups than to others?

[Rowlers]

So why is the incidence of bf greater with first time mums than second or later babies?

[JingleyJen]

Lizzy - my elderly neighbour gave be her old book on pregnancy and childbirth when we told her we were pregnant with DS1 - it was brilliant - it was a training plan written in 1952 - the essence is that you wouldn't expect to run a marathon without training so here - start training.
Brilliant book have with her permission passed it on to alot of friends! (sadly though can't remember what it says about BF!) Apparently the author infulenced shiela Kitzinger (sp?}