NON personal discussion about breastfeeding rates <no mud slinging allowed>

[JingleyJen]

Instead of personal stories and family circumstances I am really interested in the potential reasons why in this country are breastfeeding rates so much lower than in other countries?

Surely in other countries boobs are sexual things as well so it can't just be that.

Is it that ever downward spiral that as fewer women breastfeed that it is hidden and therefore fewer women feel comfortable with the whole thing?

I don't think it is the availability of formula

Have there been studies done on this? (sure there have but don't know where to find them)

Is the success rate of mothers who have chosen to breastfeed truly dependent on the support network around them - or are there really an increasing number of women whose milk doesn't come in - and why could that be the case?

This is NOT a thread for the wrongs and rights of breastfeeding vs formula it is more a question of how things have got to this stage.

Anyone?

[tiktok]

Dream Babies by Christina Hardyment, Pruners....is that the one?

There is also an American book by Valerie Fildes (title escapes me).

Yes, there have been many, many ways to stop mothers breastfeeding their babies in many cultures.

Wet nursing has been intermittently popular in different places. Baby farms caused a scandal in Dickens' time - I think there is a baby farm in one of his novels.

Mostly, though, throughout the history of humankind, the vast majority of mothers and babies breastfed well into childhood - we have plenty of athropological and even acheological evidence for this, but of course even that evidence doesn't go back all that long to enable us to show contents of stomachs and so on. It's a good bet, though!

[Jackstini]

tiktok and hunker - someone mentioned peer training... what is this and how would I go about getting involved if I want to help support/promote bf in a practical way?

[Jackstini]

Thanks mh - I am going to look into it more I think. I do work full time but flexibly from home so some possibilities I hope!

[Jackstini]

ps - lol at beastfeeding cafes

[StealthPolarBear]

grr

[Pruners]

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[tiktok]

Baby Wisom: best kept secrets by Deborah Jackson, Pruners?

[tiktok]

= Wisdom

[Pruners]

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[princessmama]

One thing that can affect bf early on is the lack of knowledge about cluster feeding. It is understandable that a woman may think she hasn't got enough milk if she has been feeding all evening and she thinks baby should be feeding every 4 hours. There is also a lot of pressure to get into a routine or get baby to sleep through, as if this is a mark of good parenting. Strict routines, at least early on, are not conducive to successful bf. I think more education antenatally is the key to increasing breastfeeding rates. Many women are simply not prepared for the reality of bf.

[Jackstini]

Good point mf.
dh didn't necessarily believe what I told him but books, internet and his mates (!) - he listened to.
He got a bit funny one day when dd was nearing 1 (asking how long I was going to do it for) but been fine ever since and she is 22 mo.
Most of our friends have bf'd which makes a difference, it is easier for us to bf in front of each other and give support.
His strongest reaction though was to one of his best friends - his dw had been very pro bf (got nursing bras and pump ready etc.) then 3 weeks before baby born I asked her if she was looking forward to bf. She went very quiet and said I don't think I'm doing that anymore. Her dh said "I hope not because I want to feed my son"
dh was very unimpressed indeed and afterwards told me he thought he was a selfish bastard....

[lizzytee]

Pruners

Is the book you read "The Politics of Breastfeeding" by Gabrielle Palmer? would also recommend "Dream Babies"

[Lyra75]

Hi just found this thread, and wanted to agree with the importance of partners being involved. My DH came along to the antenatal NCT breastfeeding session and found it really helpful. He also read (most of) the info on breastfeeding I gave him before DS was born. This meant that in those early days when I found it very tough he was a fantastic support. Not once did he suggest ff as an answer to a problem. When I was having a few problems in the first few weeks and wondering if I should give up, he reminded me about looking for help and cleared space and time for me to have some good discussions with BFC on the phone.

I also think FioFio's point about early visitors is important. This had been covered by our antenatal breastfeeding session and so DH was completely on board with fending people off. For those visitors who did come I would feed in bed and in between feeds DS would go downstairs with DH, whilst I slept some more. I didn't see any visitors I didn't want to for at least a month - fab!

DH and me were bottle fed, but his family and mine are very supportive and think breast feeding is great.

Now DH is quite political about breast feeding. He's always lurking over my shoulder on mumsnet and when reading threads about someone who has been given bad advice or unsupported he's often more outraged than me!

[Pruners]

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[MaeWest]

Would agree that partner support was one of the key things for me. Knowing that DH would just keep encouraging me rather than 'helping' by reaching for a bottle kept me going in the early weeks. DH wasn't bf himself as MIL was on heavy duty medication (altho she did go on to feed his younger bro for over a year). And DH didn't feel the need to give DS ebm to feel involved. One of the most fab things he did for me (and DS) was to wear DS in a sling in the evening and keep him quiet so I could get some sleep. It was just for the first 6 weeks or so, but was exactly what I needed and was a time for them to bond too.

[margoandjerry]

Only read the OP and first few posts but I agree that it's an expectation that is dying out.

I think we can attempt to revive it by talking about it as if we assume new mums will plan to bf. Different from being judgemental if they don't (I mix fed for various problematic reasons so don't want anyone to feel bad at all about this) but I just think we should all work on the assumption that women will bf and provide help when they can't.

[gegs73]

I've only read the original post but maybe its to do with womens lives being busier outside of the home now in the UK than before formula was invented. Formula does allow people with babies to do other things as Fathers can help out. More women work than pre 1960s and yes they could express breastmilk for feeds whilst the baby is being cared for elsewhere but it is alot easier to give formula.

Women do go out more and its acceptable for them to have social lives. Formula allows them to do this early on if they so wish.

Thirdly, according to MIL (in her 70s) and her Mother (in her 90s) babies were weaned earlier if they were hungry, so it was easier to breastfeed (less feeds). Anecdotal I know, but MIL was told to feed one of her sons at 6 weeks.

As for Northern European countries having higher breastfeeding rates, maybe the government is more supportive to new mothers. Maybe maternity leave is longer, maybe support is better for breastfeeding, maybe people are more likely to live near their own Mothers or kin which is often not the case in the UK.

BF is best for baby no doubt, but I think there are more factors than formula just being readily available which make our BF rates so low.