NON personal discussion about breastfeeding rates <no mud slinging allowed>

[JingleyJen]

Instead of personal stories and family circumstances I am really interested in the potential reasons why in this country are breastfeeding rates so much lower than in other countries?

Surely in other countries boobs are sexual things as well so it can't just be that.

Is it that ever downward spiral that as fewer women breastfeed that it is hidden and therefore fewer women feel comfortable with the whole thing?

I don't think it is the availability of formula

Have there been studies done on this? (sure there have but don't know where to find them)

Is the success rate of mothers who have chosen to breastfeed truly dependent on the support network around them - or are there really an increasing number of women whose milk doesn't come in - and why could that be the case?

This is NOT a thread for the wrongs and rights of breastfeeding vs formula it is more a question of how things have got to this stage.

Anyone?

[Catkin08]

Duchesse- It wasn't the RVI by any chance was it??

[duchesse]

Poor you, Heated- sounds like you had a terrible time. They can be remarkably tenacious, those maternity staff, when we're at a very low ebb in terms of fighting them off.

[duchesse]

Catkin- yup.

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

My bf daughter (at about 6 weeks) threw up on the knee of a friend-of-a-friend. I said "Oh don't worry its only breastmilk".

She went pale and ran to the bathroom. Turned out she'd never seen anyone bf before

A whole generation is growing up without ever seeing bf as the norm.

[VVVQV]

Awww Catkin. I really feel for you. There are so many MNers on here who have been in your situation and have gone on to b/feed succesfully second time around. Especially with the help of MN.

[Catkin08]

That's good to know. I actually feel envious when I see a mum BFing now but that's always tempered with a feeling of gladness that there are people who do manage it just fine!!

Duchesse - Thought it must be, that's where I was!

[Heated]

Thank you Duchesse, 'fighting them off' is exactly the right description of what it was like, and after the bad delivery & complications, fighting was not something I even thought of doing. I believed the hosp mw and hosp bf advisor (who's only words to me were, "it's meant to hurt") were the experts.

The only true experts I have subsequently found are bf MNers who have been there and done it, and it's to MNers I would turn for bf advice.

Maybe Mners are the answer

[VVVQV]

Catkin - I feel envious when I see a mum b/feeding too and I b/fed DS for 2.4 years

[Sabire]

"For example higher mortgages, cost of living etc so many women have to work and therefore might not see the point in breastfeeding for a few months before maternity runs out and they go back to work."

But interestingly - those women who are most likely are also those most likely to return to work, while those women who are least likely to bf are those who've never worked.....

So you get super high rates of bf among GP's, midwives, senior managers, teachers etc.

And v. low rates of breastfeeding among women in social class 5 - women who've never worked and partners of manual workers.

It's a real class thing in the UK - I wonder if it is in other countries?

[kiskidee]

Indith and VVV said something earlier about their babies not losing any birthweight.

The WHO i think has a document where it mentions that babies in West Africa do not lose birth weight either.

I think it is down to the community practice that allows women to focus entirely on their newborns which allows women to do nothing but feed their babies.

I have friends who grew up in very traditional Maya communities. They are bemused by the politics of breastfeeding when I mention what it is like 'out here'.

[Bouncingturtle]

Read this thread with interest. I agree that peer support is very important.
I'm bfing my 1 month old ds, intend to carry on to at least 6 months.
I have no friends who bf, one friend with a 6yo dd tried, she had a traumatic labour and lost a lot of blood, as she ended having a f* up c/s and so needed a blood transfusion. Her milk never came in. Second friend with a 15wo ds tried to bf, gave up when her milk came in and her breasts became so engorged her ds couldn't latch on. She was still in hospital at this stage so she should have been given help on how to relieve the engorgement but didn't - in fact she received pretty shit support on bfing in general. She was on the fence with regards to bfing, and that's why she gave up so quickly - her dh as well encouraged her to give up. I think she regrets it now she has seen me successfully (in her eyes!!) bf my ds.
I've had a few problems, engorgement and now possible thrush, but am determined that I want to continue. I did get some help at the hospital, but was also told to cup feed him formula as he was hypoglycaemic (he wasn't). But I didn't continue this when I was discharged from hospital.
I went to NCT antenatal classes and found them helpful but the most helpful thing I had was MN! I was able to read up in advance potential problems, so went into hospital very well informed and so was able to defend my choice to bf, against the advice of the paeditrician (who was an arse). The bfing MWs were brilliant as well, when they saw how determined I was to bf, they supported me 100%.
I also attended NCT run Bumps and Babes sessions while I was pg (still go now) and came into contact for the first time in my life bfing mothers, and seeing them happily feeding their babies (and simultaneously eating chocolate biscuits 9) really encouraged me.
My ds is doing fabulously, his weight gain has been excellent so I know I am doing the right thing but I still keep being asked if I'm topping him up!
My mum and my ils have been very supportive of my bfing, my mum bf me for 3.5 weeks, and didn't with my twin brothers - they were premature, being tube fed. My dsil hasn't bf her 2 dds because she is on medication which makes it unsafe to do so, and she wishes she could have done.
I hope that I will set a good example to my db and his gf when they think about having a family and to my friends who don't have kids as yet.
OK - this has turned out to be a mammoth post! Well done if you made it through it!

[InTheDollshouse]

I think the differences between Australia and the UK are interesting:

Breastfeeding initiation
Australia - 87%
UK - 69%

At 6 weeks
Australia - 70%
UK - 48%

At 6 months
Australia - 48%
UK - 25%

At 12 months
Australia - 23%
UK - no data collected past 9 months (where the figure is 13%)

This despite the fact that Australia has no statutory paid maternity leave. I'm not sure what the difference is.

[JingleyJen]

I wonder if part of it is the multicultural nature of the Australian population?

[InTheDollshouse]

I don't know MommaFeelgood. The Australian Breastfeeding Association is very active both in terms of running support groups and national campaigning (including, for e.g. TV adverts). My experience in Australia was that people were very laid back about breastfeeding in public (doing it and seeing it) but I'm sure there is big regional variation.

[tiktok]

Bf stats are on the way up in the UK.

Scandinavia did not turn their bf stats around - they never were formula feeding countries. Search archives for my name and Norway if you want to know more. Vast majority of Scandi babies have always been breastfed, but formula use did become more common after the first months, and this was then stopped before it became the cultural norm to ff.

In the UK, breastfeeding initiation was very common amng all social groups up until mid 50s. There had been a slow decline in initiation and maintenance for about 100 years before that though. Lots of reasons, but one of the main ones was institutionalisation of birth, leading to poor practices like separation of mother and baby, and sheduled and timed feeds , plus the normalisation and heavy promotion of formula among mothers and the people paid to advise and support them.

One of the worst aspects of this (ask anyone who had babies in the 1950s and early 60s) was that mothers were told to breastfeed in hospital but then told to stop at the least problem, and also told to schedule and time feeds.

Mothers found bf an unrewarding and difficult job. Millions of mothers believed they didn't have enough milk, or 'couldn't' breastfeed. By the early 70s, only about 25 per cent of babies were ever put to the breast at all.

Nothing to do with working mothers, by the way - mothers who intend to go back to work are more likely to breastfeed than bottle feed, though they may not breastfeed for as long as they wanted to.

[InTheDollshouse]

Tiktok, do you know what BFing initiation rates were in the 1960s and 70s in the UK?

[InTheDollshouse]

D'oh! just spotted it. Baby brain.

[Bouncingturtle]

Also when my mum was in the hospital, she had me in 1975 and my brothers in 1980, babies were kept separately from their mothers, in fact my mum was surprised to hear that ds was kept in the ward next to my bed! She said she was told to stick to 4 hour feeds as well. The NCT bfing counsellor who did the bfing class mentioned that the most successful bf's in my mum's generation (and this was confirmed by the mum of one of the other ladies in the class who had bfed both of her 2 children) snuck extra feeds in between!

[InTheDollshouse]

I think BF initiation rates in the '70s in Australia were about 40%. So still a minority but not quite as endangered as 25% here. Which might partly explain their higher initiation rates now, although I'm not sure it explains the differences in rates during the first 6 months.

[Poohbah]

Because even Health Visitors think feeding a toddler is just for comfort.

[Sufi]

really interesting thread. I was lucky enough to see a bf counsellor while on the postnatal ward and, together with MN, i've been able to successfully bf my DS. But very different story on the paedatric (sp.?) ward, who tried to bully me into FF as DS had jaundice, and tho my mum is very supportive she has no experience as her GP reckoned her milk was 'too poor quality' to feed me and so she switched to FF at 12 wks.

So support is vital to help mums bf successfully.

I'd like to help other new mums bf and share my knowledge - does anyone know how this might be possible?