SMA GOLD ON EASTENDERS?

[Dalrymps]

I probably don't know what i'm on about but i just flicked on to eastenders and during one scene there was a carton of SMA Gold on the surface in the background, it was the house of the one who has just had the baby with the ginger husband i think (not too sure cause i don't really watch it), anyway i think her baby in it is quite young...
Anyway, i was just wondering if this is allowed, i mean, isn't it like an indirect form of advertising formula for newborns? I'm not totally against formula or anything, I mix feed myself, I just think it seems like their advertising it when they shouldn't? Any thoughts on this?

I think carmen is getting a hard time here, that isn't justified.

That thread did have people suggesting ways to stick with breastfeeding, not all, and not judgementally, butas I said, I felt uncomfortable with my own post because it suggested talking to the bf lines.

Also I'm sure, as someone who works with bfing mums (carmen that is not myself) she probably has seen mothers who say they want to bf and then get problems like painful elt down or sore nipples or mastitis etc and give up.

I have a friend who did and would still now say that she breastfed for a bit but it was too hard so she stopped, so in a way the commitment issue does come into it, I really don't think any amount of support would have made her carry on, she simply didn't want to do it once she realised what it was really like.

And, I think it's unfair for people to make judgements on carmens work with these women based on ehr opinions of some women who do not want to breastfeed as much as they originally thought.

Thanks VS

Oh my God are u lots still debating this? Please stop it.

I think every possible issue has been covered now don't you?

Time to start talking about Corrie now... Did u see Liam fall down that cliff? Hilarious!

IMO, I think they had to show that they baby was being fed by bottle because if we were led to believe4 Oscar was breastfed, the masses would have been up in arms about Tanya drinking and going back to work. I suppose the BBC were covering every option.

I just wonder how she got her 'libido' back so soon after giving birth? New Mum 'round the corner from me, with a baby the same age, is still sleep deprived and sex is the last thing on her mind!!

Her libido? She didn't have sex with Sean, he just 'held her'.
As for the feeeding issue, she has bottles all over her house, plus we've seen max feed Oscar a few times, Sean said he fed him, there are tins of formula milk on the side without the label showing etc, the SMA LABEL was not needed to be in shot.

Like I said, I'll admit to being hot under collar and cross. Maybe a little overblown (not unusual). But Carmen ran and ran and ran with having a go at lots of people who objected both to the EE thing and to the 'committed' comment, which she admitted needed qualification.

so yup, will apologise, CE, for comments on your job when I do know nothing about how you work.

But still think you need to think about why you're so hostile to the posters on this thread.

"It's a pretty tired line and IMO on a par with the BF nazi/mafia comments"

JV - not sure about this. I personally think that guilt - acknowledged and unacknowledged, in relation to infant feeding choices and experiences IS actually a festering problem for so many people, and often DOES underpin the way people discuss the issue on forums like this.

On the other hand the accusations of 'nazism' in relation to breastfeeding advocay are pretty much unsupportable, if you take the trouble to really think about what these accusations actually mean. I have yet to meet even the most ardent breastfeeding advocate who would make a case for women to be denied a free and fully informed choice as to how she feeds her baby, and the better educated she is about infant feeding generally the less the likelyhood that she'll take a judgemental stance on women who have chosen not to breastfeed or who've not breastfed for long.

So Corrie, then. And Liam. It was great wasn't it?

OK.So let me give you a little scenario!

Mrs.X just had baby and wants to bf. Help is given from HCA/midwife/nursery nurse/bf support worker in latching baby on and showing mother how to do it herself. However, baby sleepy/not interested/difficult to get on breast, therefore, not effectively. After a while(not same day) of struggling, staff suggest using a feed chart to record times on breast etc. Suggest waking baby every 3 hrs to put to breast.

Baby due feed at 10am, inform Mrs X that qualified member of staff will along just before 10am tO help with skin-to-skin prior to feed.

945 - gO TO mRS X to remind her. Mrs X is tired as didnt get much sleep and asks staff to give bottle, Member of staff says this is fine if that what she wants to really do, but explains problems in giving ff before bf established etc ect. Mrs X still goes with formula. Plan is to recommence trying with bf at next feed.

1PM staff try again, baby does not immediately go on breast but staff continue to help suuport and mrS X wants to give another bottle. Again, staff support her but explain disadvantages of ff when trying to establish bf.

This continues with Mrs X saying she wants to give formula as she 'has at least tried bf, but didnt like it is as too hard/ not what she thought it would be/too tiring/easier to give bottle/having to do it too often. Health worker informs her it will get easier and she will take as long as it takes to get baby on and feeding. Mrs X DECLINES. Now what would you call this? No support or 'not committed'(trying to think of a better phrase).

The reality of situations like that is that before the mother tries breastfeeding she has absolutely no idea what it entails, breastfeeding can be hard enough to establish at the best of times without the tiredness of a new baby.

I would call it a shame. I struggled to bf my first dd - she had a tongue tie and it was difficult. I did try very hard and it was frustrating to me that it did not seem to work. I received support in the hospital but after going home and mixed feeding I gave up bf and dd was exclusively ff. I gave up therefore I was not committed enough I suppose. I have no problem with this and never felt guilty. I gave it a go but it was too hard. Second time round I was more determined and was far more successful but again I ended up switching to formula. No guilt again....who knows may be with the third I may end up bf till the age of 1??!!

I'd call it a day with this thread if I were u Carmen. You'll get 50m replies now slagging u off.... this thread has run it's course. Bereft of life it is no more. This is an EX thread.

VS has a good point. When a woman is trying to establish bf it's not like there is nothing else going on....nappies, lack of sleep, house, other kids etc. It can be overwhelming and perhaps giving up bf for some women can seem easier than persevering. And I for one can understand this.

Carmen,

I do think it's not fair for people to criticise your work as, like you say, we don't know you, and I'm sure you're very supportive.

Thing is, I still don't really agree with you over many women not being committed enough.

Take your example of a woman whose baby feeds every hour.

She might come to our bf support group (or go to see you) and someone might check through things like P&A etc. and conclude it's probably a growth spurt, and after about 48 hours it should settle back down again. And then she comes back next week to say bye, as she's stopped bfing.

And you might think, "not committed enough."

But what you don't know is that when she went home, her dh had a go at her about the house being a tip, says she is just always sitting around bfing, it's an excuse not to do housework, if baby was ff he would not be hungry so often. Her dh is already about bfing for a variety of reasons so in the end she decides to give in, and switch to ff.

I really do think that "not committed enough" might actually be "not enough support at home" quite a lot.

And if the above example seems melodramatic it happened to me - I kept on bfing (although nearly split up with dh - who has since apologised) but could so easily not have done.

No, chardonnay, she won't. She has a good point, I just think the original way she worded it sounded quite rude, and people have taken offence against it, obviously carmen doesn't want to offend anyone which is why she is trying to explain her point better.
I think good on her for continuing tbh, I probably would've just told everyone to fuck off

Xposts with lots of people sorry.

Carmen - I'd call that an appalling lack of education. I'm convinced that if mums really understood the differences between breastfeeding and artificial feeding they wouldn't give up without a struggle.

This mum's education on the subject probably consisted of a brief chat with the midwife - all of 3 minutes and reading a couple of paragraphs of a leaflet.

Most women IMO have incredibly superficial knowledge of the differences between bf and af. They think that bf is some nice 'optional extra' - you know, 'gives your baby a bit of a boost', but that ff is 'normal' and 'fine'. No wonder they don't keep trying if things prove hard in the early days. Where's the motivation?

Reversethepolarity, you're right it may be that, but sometimes, people do give up because it isn't what they expected.

If I hadn't been so bloody-minded that I was going to bf, no matter what, even with the support I got, both at home and from my wonderful midwife, I probably would've given up. It was my stubborness that kept me at it rather than the amount of support I got.

Not doing any more slagging off now (put my BF nazi uniform back in the cupboard for now... )

But how about this instead...

After a while (not same day) of struggling, trained MWs/BF supporters have time to sit with MrsX fulltime until baby less sleepy and latching better. If doesn't work, then suggest a little bit of formula in a cup or finger feed until baby not sleepy so can latch on well. MWs chuck away feeding charts and try to latch baby on until successful rather than every 3 hours.

Mrs X protests but I'm so tired, can't I just give him a bottle?

Trained BF worker says, well it's not our policy to give bottles until there is a clinical necessity to do so or you say that is aboslutely what you want to do and this baby is fine for now. What if we took him for an hour to cuddle and you got some sleep in your quiet own room instead of the busy ward?

Then we'll try again..

OK says mum, I'll give it one more try cos I really do want to BF, I just didn't think it would be this hard. . MW puts arms round mum and lets her cry. Tells her it really is hard work for some but so is having a new baby and at least once she's got it working it might be less work than bottles. Mum goes for sleep.

Immediately she wakes, the very same MW says right let's give that baby a touch of expressed milk and get you and the baby in the bath in a darkened warm room and we'll see how we get on with a breastcrawl.

Mum manages to hand express some colostrum and is amazed to see her body producing stuff.

She sits at a distance letting them get on with it.

Funnily enough, baby latches on better this time.

What's missing from this picture in real life?

Answer: well supported, not tired, not overworked fully trained MWs who have enough time to work 1-1 with individual women for extended periods of time.

Not a criticism of you Carmen or any other HCW, just an alternative view of how it could, sometimes, go instead if circs were right...

Bottle feeding IS normal and fine. So is breastfeeding. Let's all make a pledge to love one another and get along together. No more arguing ok?

CE with reference to your example in some ways yes I might call it a lack of support - a lack of antenatal support.

Mrs X should have been supported to learn about bfing and the potential difficulties that can arise before giving birth. She should perhaps have been told that drugs in labour can often lead to sleepy/non latching baby (I for one certainly wish I'd been told this!) and left to make an informed choice about pain relief, for example.

But I can see what you mean and accept that yes, she might not have been "committed" in that scenario. But I do think she ought to have had access to more bf support antenatally, too.

Doh! meant OBV to say EBM not F first

But if no juy, yeah, why not a bit of F in a cup to get that blood sugar up? and then back on to the fulltime support and emotional 'mothering' of the mother...

(better put my BFNazi uniform on and go back to school...)

I like Monkeybird's scenario. Yay to better paid better supported MWs with better access to training and more of 'em!!

LOL chardonnay, can we put flowers in our hair?

MB, That sounds all well and good, and maybe it would change some experiences, In fact I am positively sure it would, hence the need for more awareness and training around bfing, but there would still be mothers who after that went home to feed and after being up feeding their baby for 12 hours during a growth spurt would conclude it wasn't right for them and stop.

oK i have admitted that wrong choice of words with 'non committed'. I use that term cos i know what it means to me, others seem to be seeing it as an insult, its not, cos ive openly admitted im not committed enough either!!

karen was right saying she was'more determined' second time. I understand women have loads more going on at home - morecommittments making bf extra hard. What i dont like is people always blaming health professional for their lack of support all the bloody time!

Chardonnay, youre right, im done. I will get 50 million replies now, but Vs you are right too, i was trying to illustrate the fact im not trying to upset anyone.

i WAS gonna do a profile and put some pics of my my new baby, but no way now! im not revelaing any more about myself!!