SMA GOLD ON EASTENDERS?

[Dalrymps]

I probably don't know what i'm on about but i just flicked on to eastenders and during one scene there was a carton of SMA Gold on the surface in the background, it was the house of the one who has just had the baby with the ginger husband i think (not too sure cause i don't really watch it), anyway i think her baby in it is quite young...
Anyway, i was just wondering if this is allowed, i mean, isn't it like an indirect form of advertising formula for newborns? I'm not totally against formula or anything, I mix feed myself, I just think it seems like their advertising it when they shouldn't? Any thoughts on this?

VictorianSqualor, good point. IMO even if a woman attempts/tries to bf then can't for whatever reason this should be seen as success - success at trying to even though it may not work. And it's great that women can bf....thats success too - and if the women decides to give up then that is successful also!!

There should be no question of 'failing'. And even if a woman decides to ff straight away and her baby is happy then she is sucessful in feeding her baby - whichever way that may be.

Thanks VS and Karen for a bit of support!
Its not a failure if bf doesnt work out, its just that, not working out, no failure. Not a competition who can do it best or longest.

wHAT I was trying to get across earlier(and failed!) was IME i have seem many women who say "Yes i definitely want to bf" and for many thats it, they do and they need varying degrees of help and no probs. Then there are another group who may have difficulty latching baby on or baby not interested and they say "oh just give abottle" and no amount of support encouragement will work.They will be happy to bf so long as baby goes on easily, which baby often does not.

A further group may have had to go down the expressing route for whatever reason and they are quite happy at first until they realise this may mean doing it 3hrly plus putting baby to the breast. Now many women will still want to continue and do so. However, ive lost count of the times ive assisted with feeding& expressing and almost broke my back doing this for the women to then say they are not happy doing it at night, so regular etc( i must say i cant blame them sometimes) and would prefer to give the bottle.Even if they are not expressing and are managing to bf with assistance, many will want to give up when they realise bf isnt an every 3hrs job but maybe every hour and it isnt as quick and 'easy' as giving a bottle(AT FIRST).

Maybe comMitted isnt the right word but sometimes women just dont want to do it even if support is readily available and i do think you really have to want to do it more than anything to continue. This is
if you have the support you understand. I completely get the fact that there are many women who are desperately committed but give up cos they have no support.

All im saying is IME when i offer support/assistance, there are women who sometimes just do not want to bf!! I hate the way lack of support is always given as a reason to blame!! Argh! If someone said that about me id say 'not true, not true'. Sometimes you can offer all the support in the worls and its not taken up.

Now please dont tell me that statistics show women give up in the first God knows how many wks etc because LACK OF SUPPORT. Im sure they do but in my experience the majority i see do not give up for this reason!!

Carmenelectra - it's lovely to know that I gave up breastfeeing my tongue tied baby after weeks and months of agony, during which no one even bothering to check what was wrong, because I "wasn't committed enough". Ta muchly for that.

Oh honestly, I cant bear all this faux-offence that gets taken.

Twinklemegan - Do you really think she was talking directly to you or that her comments would have been aimed at your situation?

Get a grip.

No of course I don't, but it's those kinds of comments that can cause guilt among unwilling formula feeders NOT concerns about advertising.

OK, fair enough.

Twinklemegan - don't think carmenelectra was generalising about all women (but sure she can defend herself so I'll mind my own business).

Really angry for you over tongue-tie. Makes me mad that it is so unrecognised and that people who should know better still go about saying "it has no effect on feeding".

Hope someone from BBC Props comes on Mumsnet soon and sees the trouble they've caused!

"Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean i haven't experienced it!"
hold that thought carmenelectra
because just because you don't agree with the people on this thread doesn't mean they are lying about their beliefs, and that they are just a smoke screen.

I know she wasn't. I was just trying to make the point that a sweeping statement like that can cause real hurt to someone in my position. Not for me now because I've moved on and it's not so raw. But a year ago I would have found any such suggestion (even if it wasn't meant) very hurtful indeed. People on this thread have accused those of us who are concerned about the issue of trying to make f/f's feel guilty. Whereas it is suggestions that we had a choice in the matter, or that we didn't try hard enough, that can really hurt.

To be fair HC - I think it was me that made those comments.

"Then there are another group who may have difficulty latching baby on or baby not interested and they say "oh just give abottle" and no amount of support encouragement will work."

Actually, I think I know where you're coming from on this one.

I suspect there are women who opt to breastfeed initially because they feel it's expected of them but are actually emotionally uncomfortable with the experience of it, for one reason or another.

I've heard midwives say this on several occasions - that there are women who are longing to give up breastfeeding, and any strong encouragement or dedicated support given to these women to overcome breastfeeding difficulties will be construed as bullying and pressurising.

I'd hate to be in the position of some midwives - having to work out who really wanted my help with breastfeeding, and who just wished I'd go away and stop bothering them!

TBH, I think carmen is getting jumped on for a lot of bad comments made by other people that have made breastfeeders that have stopped feel like shit.

I personally have met people who think that the ideal of bfing sounds awesome but when it comes to it would much prefer to hand their baby and a bottle to someone else, I assume that's what carmen meant.

Twinklemegan, I would say you, personally, and your experiences come under the bracket of 'the wrong support' which can be just as bad, if not worse tbh as no support and I totally understand why it pisses you off, it would me, but I really don't think that she meant that.

I think the only thing we can all do, bfers and ffers alike is agree that we think everyone should have the right support to feed their baby in whatever way they chjoose and stop arguing amongst ourselves, I bet even with all the disagreement on this thread not one of us thinks anyone should have had to do something they didnt want to, whether it be start breastfeeding, start formula feeding or stop either when not ready. All the millions of guilt argumenst that come of these discussions just leads us further from the 'best for you' choices that should be made when feeding a baby.

Well the current argument makes the original one about formula advertising pale into insignificance doesn't it, when it comes to making people feel "guilty". I used formula, but I still hate the way formula companies manipulate vulnerable women.

Me too megan.

FWIW, I think it will be hard to prove the BBC have acted illegally, unless they have taken money for product placement for this particular prop.

However, it is a respectable argument that they have at least acted unethically.

I can understand that women who have used formula for whatever reason and feel bad about it are upset when this sort of topic comes up, but that is not a reason to avoid discussion, because it is not about you. No one has criticised ff mothers, no one has criticised the use of formula, and no one has called formula 'poison' or 'arsenic'.

Carmen, people do get help with ff here, but I think the majority of mumsnetters have more experience with bf issues, so posts asking Qs about formula do sometimes get fewer responses, but that is hardly the fault of breastfeeding advocates.

Women who bf without much committment to it deserve as much help and support and information about it as anyone else. The incidence of breatfeeding is a public health matter, and if bf rates are to increase, then the women who are not all that committed to bf need to be reached as well.

Having said that, hunker and others are right to point out that support comes in many forms - it's not just in hospital, or with healthcare professionals, where women get (or don't get) support. Our culture generally does not offer support to bf, and when it does, it is very conditional - bf is 'ok' up to a certain age, or in certain places, for instance.

Also, Carmen, can you link to the thread where someone asked about using formula and was only told to bf - I can't recall it. Ta!

Tiktok, I think it was this thread, but sa I said earlier, many of us didnt know what to say so tried to say what we could, I suggested calling the bf helplines, but certainly not to force her to carry on.

VS - but there is nothing wrong with what was said on that thread....there was certainly no pressure to continue bf, just people checking she had covered all her options, and some practical stuff about what she could do. One person - one! - mentioned continuing to breastfeed without anything else, and in a tentative polite way.

Carmen, surely you can't have objected to that thread!

oH this is a massive surprise thats ive just come on here after trying to defend/explain myself last night, which was clearly a waste of time, to find first poster discussing tongue tie and me suggesting she was apparently not 'committed enough'!

I really, really tried not too offend anyone but just give examples of what i come across at work. WASTE OF BLOODY TIME!

Why im explaining myself yet again like im a child i don't know.

Tongue tie is another issue. Obviously the poster gave up because she didnt get skilled help, nothing to do with not being committed. By the way if i had to help with tongue tie and didnt know what i was doing i would call on someone else to help, but thats by the by.

When i talk about not being committed, i dont mean that offensively! SOME people are not. It is a big commitment especially to exclusively bf for 6 mths, especially in the early wks when its often the hardest.
I am one of those people myself! I chose to mixed feed because i felt it would be less of a committment than exclusively bf ing.
And by being 'committed' its not just about sitting down and feeding but about having to take the trouble to access help etc. Which even if readily available may be a pain.

Yes Tiktok, the thread VS linked to is the one.

All this over bleedin' EastEnders! Wouldnt mind but i watched the omnibus yesterday out of curiosity, saw no milk, but did see Tesco home brand cereals and HP brown sauce!!!!

If that is the thread, carmen, and you say it is, then I cannot take anything you say seriously - not a thing, sorry,

"Watching a thread a day or so ago where a poster asked for advice on geeting her baby to take a bottle as she really wanted to stop bf. There were messages giving advice, but there were a hell of a lot telling her to stick with the bf and advice how to continue!!SHE DIDNT WANT TO!!And she said so too. Whether its right or wrong or whether we agree that's her decision."

There were no posts telling her to stick with the bf - none at all. There were some which combined support for whatever decision she made with suggestions on overcoming the difficulties that led her to switch to bottle feeding.

You are clearly deluded, I am afraid

She asked for advice on giving a bottle i believe and there were several posters discussing bf support and the like. Im sure she would have asked for bf support and how to continue she'd have wanted that. Think she even said at some point well thanks, but any advice on giving a bottle gratefully received.

If i wanted to give up bf and wanted ff suggestions and someone offered me some advice on how to continue bf, how ever well intentioned, id asked them if they were deaf!

Oh for goddness sake, carmen, read the flippin thread again and you will see there was no one telling her to stick with the breastfeeding, not one person, and any suggestions on continuing were tentatively made alongside clear expressions of support and quite a lot of practical stuff directly concerned with bottle feeding.

If you have re-read the thread, and still think what you say is true, then you are, as I say, deluded.

I can see where carmen is coming from, I felt like I was maybe giving her advice she hadnt asked for as she did say quite clearly she wanted to stop bfing, but I don't think anyone had any motives other than trying to help her cover the reasons she wanted to stop so she could be sure to do it on her terms rather than because it was working.

Quite right, VS - people were supportive and quite tentative about checking with her about bf. No pressure, no telling her what to do, just offering options and support. What's not to like?

OH why do some of you have to over analyse everything that is said?!Do some of you re- read everything over and over again until you find some hidden sinister comment. Deluded is a bit of a strong word also titok.

And by the way im not interested in how anyone else feeds their baby, its none of my business unless they are telling me what to do with my own baby(now i expect someone to tell me that i cant do my job properly cos ive said imnot interested and its none of my business, so dont bother, ive said it for you).