SMA GOLD ON EASTENDERS?

[Dalrymps]

I probably don't know what i'm on about but i just flicked on to eastenders and during one scene there was a carton of SMA Gold on the surface in the background, it was the house of the one who has just had the baby with the ginger husband i think (not too sure cause i don't really watch it), anyway i think her baby in it is quite young...
Anyway, i was just wondering if this is allowed, i mean, isn't it like an indirect form of advertising formula for newborns? I'm not totally against formula or anything, I mix feed myself, I just think it seems like their advertising it when they shouldn't? Any thoughts on this?

So the words campaigner, advocate and activist are all dirty words in your world are they?

I hope to goodness you never find something you feel strongly about and want to something with.

As for the guilt over formula feeding, I honestly believe many of you are missing posts here, formula feeding is not wrong, there is no problem with it, and no-one has said otherwise, but it should be engineered to be the best for baby surely?? Not the best for the money hungry manufacturers.

If only I had that insight to read what other people are really thinking, then I'd be able to say for sure that you were getting overly insensitive due to your own issues about formula feeding.

I wouldnt be offended in the least if choc was advestised during kids TV!! Doesnt mean im gonna buy it??!!lets hide all the chocolate away like the baby milk and pretend it doesnt exist.

Why cant people take some responsibilty and instead of blaming advertising on childhood obesity/junkfood habits and realise its cos they are feeding their kids crap? makes me mad that does?

wHAT will you be allowed to show in this country soon?

And Carmen, I know that some people do take offence at the bf/ff debates on MN, but it cuts both ways, I have a friend who would love to learn about breastfeeding and is infact due to have her third child (first two were ff)in the next few months.

I have mentioned to her a few times to post on here but she won't, because she knows that there will be some people giving it the 'you must bf' and then others saying 'don't tell her to bf, let her ff' when all she wants is advice on how to bf if she decides to do it.

Carmen - you really are an advertiser's dream!

If only everyone thought like you, we'd be able to get away with so much more - our sales would skyrocket, we'd never have to ascribe to any kind of ethical code, we'd have unlimited influence to change purchasing habits, and those competitors that had no competing budget would get extinguished completely!

Presumably we wouldn't have to be entirely..er.. truthful in our claims, too?

And best of all - you'd never hold us accountable, and wouldn't ever realise the impact we can have! And you'd place 100% of the blame on the consumers.

Wooohoo - game over!

I breast fed DS for as long as I could but with an infected c scar, bleeding nipples etc, it sadly wasn't more than 6 weeks so I reluctantly switched to formula. I cried, I felt guilty, a failure - you name it.

Now, when I see people making such a fuss about formula product placement (if that is what it was - it may have been a prop oversight) it makes me feel really really shit because although people can say as much as they like oh we don't have a problem with FF mums, their choice etc, its the product placement we are arguing with and we want women to make an informed decision about things, the end result is that the fuss about it all makes some of us FF mums feel like we opted to give our kids arsenic and that seeing a tin of SMA on a soap is tantamount to Tanya having a bottle with a skull and cross on the side!!

Enough already! Also, how many b'feeding mums take care to ensure that there are absolutely no chemicals in their breast milk that shouldn't be there? Do they stop using standard toothpastes, lipgloss, perfumed soaps/shampoos, do they switch to organic free range foods? Do they never touch a single fizzy drink or caffine? I doubt it - so I guess breastmilk can, for some women have stuff that shouldn't be in it anyway!

That's sad VS for you friend to feel like that, especially as this site is mainly great.

Truly though(and i have no hidden agenda here as i have ff and bf and fully intend to bf next time!) i do feel as though ff are mainly made to feel like crap.

Watching a thread a day or so ago where a poster asked for advice on geeting her baby to take a bottle as she really wanted to stop bf. There were messages giving advice, but there were a hell of a lot telling her to stick with the bf and advice how to continue!!SHE DIDNT WANT TO!!And she said so too. Whether its right or wrong or whether we agree that's her decision.

Also i have also noticed that when a thread is started about ff it hardly ever generates the same response as a bf question. The was such a post this morning which maybe got half a dozen responses a bf question usually gets millions!!!

These are just my observations and i know everyone will say its not like that, but thats the way it looks.

Absoltely Puss.

And just because a woman gives the best start in life with breastmilk isnt she just as likely as a ff mother to feed her baby crap when its older?

I have seen plenty of bf mums as ff ones.

Mean i have seen plenty of shit bf mums as ff.

PJC, I used SMA too when I was unable to Bf DD, she was born prem and my milk dried up, had no help etc so I FF her. It wasn't a big deal to me then, and I don't feel guilty about it now, because she needed feeding so I did it.

So I certainly don't mean anything about the SMA brand in particular, it's more the way formula is marketed as a profitable product than a needed feeding resource that gets me annoyed.

Another reason I don't feel guilty is that I knew nothing about how formula is composed and even if I did I had no choice but to use it. Now I do know more about it I think it should be done differently, and I think that people should be given more help to make their choice (be it ff/bf) and to follow it through.

The thread the other day Carmen, I saw, I posted on it too, sayign to call the BF helplines because they would advise her, and not try to co-erce her into continuing bfing if that wasn't what she wanted, I don't feel I worded my post properly though as I was trying to be over sensitive to her and the other posters, which is something else thatthe ff/bf debates seem to make us do.

We become overly apologetic for our opinions and are scared stiff to enforce them on someone else incase we get called 'militant bfers' or w/e.

Well this is all massively interesting...but those of you who were harping on about the illegality of SMA being on screen, have you realised yet that you were wrong?

It really doesn't take long, the numbers for all the watchdogs and regulatory bodies are there if you google for them.

If however you accept that it is not illegal and no guidelines have been contravened, I would still love to hear why you are complaining.

VS - you attempted to answer this question for me earlier but you went back to the default justification of it being because of the ban on advertising of SMA gold. I thought we had established that this has nothing to do with advertising? It's a soap (on the non-commercial BBC), not an advert.

*By MerryLittleCarrotmas on Sat 05-Jan-08 19:17:00
JV: "I just wish you would all be honest about why you are complaining - because it offends you personally - all this other stuff being mentioned is a way of trying to legitimise your argument and claim the moral/legal/ethical high ground."

How lovely for you to be able to correct others on what they really are thinking*

Merrylittlecarrotmas - Yes, I am presuming but no-one has yet said why they are complaining (other than those who said it was because it was illegal or at least aginst some code or other - I'm assuming by now they have realised that they were mistaken) So if it is not a personal objection to formula being shown on screen then I would love to know why.

^VictorianSqualor* - you have absolutely no idea about my feeding experience so kindly shove the formula-feeders-guilt line up your arse.

Im sorry but some of you do seem like militant bf ers. I do think ff ers also seem to make apologises for giving formula, saying things like "I had to give up bf because,..." or "I can't bf because", like they have to explain themselves why they aren't bf ing!! And i thoght this was afree country. It may be illegal to advertise formula but it aint illegal to give it to your baby.

Some may just want to ff. I know myself with my second child that i chose to mixed feed becuase that what i wanted to do. i had plenty of milk, had no problems latching him on, no sore nipples, he was gaining weight etc etc, I just w anted to do that!! I didnt want to just give bottles and i didnt want to just give breast.

You're right, I do have no idea, just as you have no idea about what exactly is going through my head, yet claim to.

As I said, "If only I had that insight to read what other people are really thinking" or are presumptions only afforded to you on this thread?

I really don't see how you could still fail to see the reasons people are not happy with it.

Even if it isn't illegal, it is definitely in a grey area, and with the reasoning behind the advertising ban, i.e. people not being given decent information and formula milk being manufactured as a profit making object rather than a needed feeding source, anything that seems to contravene normal advertising guidelines should be taken great care with should it not?

"Still makes her sound like an anti war protester"

The almost wholesale switch to artificial feeding that's happened in this country over the past 60 years is the biggest single evolutionary revolution in human nutrition since the dawn of time.

It's a revolution driven by commercial interests and fertilised by misinformation and ignorance of breastfeeding.

The people who've been most affected by this change are the most vulnerable members of our society - babies, and they've had no say in any of it.

I DO see it as a war - a war against institutionalised ignorance about breastfeeding and commercial profiteering at the expense of mothers and babies.

It's incredibly frustrating that when this subject is discussed women always seem to feel the need to denigrate each other rather than focusing on the wider issues.

I'm really sorry for any woman who has experienced strong feelings of guilt, failure or disappointment in relation to her personal experience of feeding her baby but dare I say it - if you find these sorts of discussions uncomfortable, then you don't take part?

You can keep insisting it's a grey area all you like - it wont make it true though.

I would imagine if it was a grey area there will be some sort of data to back that up? Somewhere on the internet?

Sabire - I want to take part though

Oh FGS, what is the point in trying to explain something to you, from my POV, if you won't open your mind and listen?????

I'm telling you my reasons for not being happy with it and all you want to do is disagree with it.

By a grey area I do not mean it isn't legal or is legal, just that showing formula milk brands on television shows are a way for the manufacturers to get around the ban.

I am not disputing any of your opinions VS - I have actually said further down you are entitled to personally object to formula in a tv programme if it offends your sensibilities. (but I keep hearing that this is not about personal POVs?)

I am simply disputing the spurious claims on this thread.

But honestly, your opinion that this is a grey area is fine - I'm just pointing out that formula used as a prop, in context is not a grey area in any official or generally accepted sense.

Carmenelectra - you say "the stuff on here is all political" as though that is a criticism.

The point is that yes, it is political, rather than personal. Mothers who choose to ff are NOT BEING CRITICISED, but the companies and organisations that do their best to influence that choice, and the ineffective legislation designed to protect women and their babies IS.

And I have posted several links that show that it is a "grey area" at the least. As has Hunker.

As a mother you have two choices on how to feed your baby - either breastfeed or formula feed. I have done both. Most know that breast is best. But feeding your children formula is not going to harm them. Just becuase a tin of SMA appears on Eastenders does not mean that mothers will suddenly think "oh I think I will buy that"and so what if they do? Ok, it should not have been there due to advertising codes etc but it's hardly worth getting irate.

And lets not forget that manufacturers of SMA (just like other manufacturers of baby stuff) are there to make money. Well, its hardly a shock then that they wish to advertise. People will be influenced by advertising, just as they will be influenced by midwives, HV's, family, friends etc...but I really don't see the difference of seeing tins of SMA on Asda's shelves or on Eastenders.....it's down to personal choice how you choose to feed your baby. Personally I am thankful to SMA - my dd has been on the soya formula for health reasons and it has greatly helped.

I think it is worth getting irate actually.

If things like this are ignored then they will continue happening and become more blatant. The law is there for the protection of babies and of the choices that mothers make. Of course it is ultimately down to personal choice and circumstances, but that choice should be made without interference or influence from companies that have a vested interest.

Well it seems everyone has ignored the point I was trying to make, which was that television is used (quite shamelessly sometimes) as a vehicle for conveying all kinds of political messages and influencing people's thinking. This means that
a) people can certainly be influenced by what they see on the TV, and
b) why can't TV be used to put some positive messages out there about b/f rather than undermining it all the time?

Most women end up f/f because of a lack of b/f support and a general lack of understanding of b/f in our society. I'm quite surprised, therefore, that this particular thread has proved so contraversial.

And if anyone thinks I'm out to get f/f mothers then you can think again. Formula was my lifeline when everything went horribly wrong, and I would be the first to jump up and down if I thought anyone here was out to make f/f mothers feel guilty.

I didn't ignore your point!

Carmen,

"Watching a thread a day or so ago where a poster asked for advice on geeting her baby to take a bottle as she really wanted to stop bf. There were messages giving advice, but there were a hell of a lot telling her to stick with the bf and advice how to continue!!SHE DIDNT WANT TO!!And she said so too. Whether its right or wrong or whether we agree that's her decision."

When I was really struggling with bfing I posted half a dozen threads on MN over the course of eight weeks, saying I wanted to continue bf. I got lots of help, but also there were a hell of a lot of people saying how formula had worked for them, at least for the last feed of the evening. But I'm not pointing to that as an example of a bias towards ff. It's just people giving their opinions and experiences, it's what MN is about, just like your example above.

Also i have also noticed that when a thread is started about ff it hardly ever generates the same response as a bf question. The was such a post this morning which maybe got half a dozen responses a bf question usually gets millions!!!

Well you can hardly blame bfers for that can you? Someone who has no experience of formula feeding isn't really qualified to answer those questions are they? If anything you should be asking the ff Mums where they are and why they aren't answering these questions!

I just hate this picture of MN breast / bottle threads as a place where militant bfers hang out just waiting to shove their milky norks into the mouths of bottle-fed babes.

Recently there was a very well known poster who wanted to bf her new baby. She did so, with lots of MN help & support for about 4 weeks. When she stopped, she also got lots of messages of support and understanding, from the very same posters.

Some of them are on this thread.

Oh and i completely and utterly disagree that bf ers give up because of little support.Untrue. Many bf ers give up becuse they are not committed enough. It often comes as a shock when its more difficult than they expect and not the natural thing they expected. There is alot of support out there, it's just many are shocked, i think, when they realise its not as easy as giving a bottle or that they may have to do it every hour or so day and night etc etc.It's aoften a case that they want to bf, but not That much.

And I know this from working first hand with such women myself.

Anyway, im off to clean my dirty house, i cant spend another day stuck on here!