Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

I wish I knew the right way to talk about formula - I hope I don't suggest it's poisonous 'cos it's not what I think.

But on the other thread and elsewhere I have certainly discussed the risks of formula and linked to studies which looked at these risks. I know that might make some people uncomfortable so I try to do it in a detached way, not 'look at this stuff you are shovelling into your kids' , and always in response to someone actually asking something specific.

I do believe it is better to be honest and open, while avoiding personal unkindness...if that's possible.

Oh you enjoy torture then

To be fair CD I think the title of the thread is meant as 'why is breastfeeding so hard for so many people in the UK when physiologically it is possible for most of us, as the Swedish experience proves. What are the key factors which mislead women who genuinely want to breastfeed into feeling that they can't?' I agree that a thread title that can be misread so easily might be better reworded, but Pupuce clearly did not mean 'Why don't you get on with it, you wrongheaded fools'!
I think this thread makes it clear that many women's experience is of mismanagement by health professionals, wrong information given, scaremongering by friends etc etc. I could so easily have been one of those people who wanted to breastfeed but didn't after being told that I was literally 'starving' my baby by a succession of midwives - an opinion contradicted by the breastfeeding counsellor. I was SO unhappy and distraught and felt such a failure that I seemingly couldn't breastfeed my baby that I might well have got discouraged and given up trying - esp if I had been told that once a bottle was given there was chance of ever breastfeeding, as some women have been explicitly told.
Of course, some women cannot breastfeed (like you) and some women will always choose not to, but there are an awful lot of women who would either like to very much (hence the high numbers of women who start breastfeeding) or might give it a go in a different climate of opinion, and I think the thread was intended to ask people's experiences around those issues. I'm sorry the midwives were horrible to you. My experience was totally different.

Diny - I am really glad that you are having a good BF experience this time BTW - well done !

Thank you Aloha

Dinny, I also think it's a trifle bizarre to go on and on about how weird formula is. I certainly never felt that way - ds had enough of the stuff! I thought it looked perfectly OK. But on the other hand, there have been threads in which people have made their revulsion and even a sense of disgust about breastfeeding (esp longer term breastfeeding) very clear indeed - which other posters have found hurtful. As someone who did both I certainly don't think formula is poison! And of course there are lots of lovely, perfect, clever, exceptional people raised on formula.

Thanks, Pupuce. Hardly dare believe how well it's going this time. Just shows, different baby, different circumstances.... Ds is thriving on it - nearly 15lb at 10 weeks.

I only discovered mumsnet last week, i posted a thread to discuss with other mums who do not have 2sufficient supply of milk like myself", because it make people like me feel utter crap!.I can honestly say I regret posting this due to criticism from so many women who obviously are spurting milk from here to australia- apparently, and love to rub other mums who bottle feed in it. I didn't realise how many rude, insensitive, and cruel mums there are out there. Surely we are all trying to do the best for our dear children. And i'm sorry but the world we live in isn't perfect.

mizmiz - I am shocked at how utterly patronising and heartless your message is Not really in the spirit of MN surely? Very disappointing.

Agree Aloha. Thing is, I think that if you are successfully bfing it is really difficult to understand that it doesn't always happen - for many reasons. The temptation is to get a bit evangelical about it, for some.

It always makes me laugh when people do bang on about formula though. I remember going to a La Leche League meeting when b/f DD1 (must say, I have never been so bored in my entire life) and half of them were shoving cocktail sausages down their children's throats!!

babbler - that's horrible to feel that way. I didn't think you were criticised at all, though - if you look at that thread, you'll see a number of people who spent time and energy offering support, sympathy and shared experience.

There have been in the past couple of days a very small number of insensitive people, on both sides.

Most posts are supportive.

Have to admit, am always amused when I encounter one particularly evangelical bfeeder I met at antenatal classes. My (mainly formula fed) dd adores fruits & veggies and is generally a joy to cook for. Her (bf) ds exists on crisps, Kitkats and apple juice as it's all she can get down him. Poetic justice, in my mind.

I was put off by everyone from the start of my pregnancy to the finish. At the start, I did intend to breastfeed, but by the end I had heard so many awful stories that I decided not to even try. Plus my maternity leave ran out when ds was 11 weeks old and someone had convinced me that he would never ever take a bottle if he had tried the breast. Then to top it off, my mum said that breastfeeding me was the most horrible thing she had ever done, but she had to carry on because I wouldn't take a bottle for weeks...... the list is endless. Knowing what I know now, I would at least have tried, but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Funny, isn't Dinny! Yet cooking a balanced and healthy meal is so easy - I mean people in Sweden manage it .

pupuce - but is the swedish statistic for bfing after one week necessarily the best statistic for looking at how problems establishing bfing are dealt with? wouldn't the two month statistic be more appropriate - have had a brief look at the link on kellymom and the statistics for two months decrease to about just over 80% by the looks of things - so they are still "losing" some people, though of course an 80% rate is v.good also don't these statistics include partial as well as inclusive bfing?

Don't get it, mummytummy....are you not supposed to give cocktail sausages to babies if you breastfeed?

Oh dear....didn't know that ;)

CD - I've just read your post here and also remember reading about your birth experience. I'm staggered at what you've been through. You're bloody amazing!

Mizmiz - are you related to Buka by any chance?

I think the message I get from this is "concentrate on our own babies and if we are happy with how we bring them up regardless whether they're bottle, breast (and all the rest of it,) and they are happy and thriving then it's our business only.

Dinny, it was me who said about formula making me feel weird. I'm afraid that it's just true and if I'd not been able to feed DS (and I had five weeks where I curled my toes and cried most feeds, so I very nearly didn't) I'd have used it and been grateful for it. I would just have had to get over my feelings about it. The tone of my post wasn't offensive, nor did I criticise women for not breastfeeding. The thread in question was titled why don't older mothers bottlefeed and at 29 I guess I qualify(!) - I was simply answering the question.

If I offended you or hurt you by what I said then I am truly sorry - it was not my intention.

hunkermunker as if! 29 is NOT old!!!!

Tiktok, people can give their children as many cocktail sausages as they want, but if someone at a meeting tells me that formula is nutritionally inadequate, and then gives their 8 month old a cocktail sausage to chew on, it kind of takes away the nutritional benefit.

Hunkermunker, my cracked nipples have just healed (after 8 weeks of feeding my 2nd child) so I know where you're coming from. That was a doddle compared to the trauma of trying to feed a baby who didn't want to go anywhere near my boobs (and God I tried - for as long as could).
I will never get over not feeding her myself - it is really hurtful to read such comments (though I'm sure they weren't made with the intention to hurt).

Dinny, I honestly didn't mean to make you (or anyone else) feel bad. I am really glad that you're having a positive experience this time (now you've healed - hugs for the pain you had there hun, I know what that's like).

Put my foot in it with the 29 being an older mum bit too - what I meant was I wasn't a younger mum like was being referred to on Coddy's thread. Think I ought to quit while I'm still behind now though!

it was a lovely sort of pain to me (masochist!)-to have my child right there on my breast