Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

I haven't read all the posts but I've just had my baby at a hospital where they very much promoted breast feeding and had an excellant attitude towards it. I then went home and baby was not feeding very well, was lethargic and jaundiced so we spent the weekend in (a different) hospital with the phototherapy and frequent feeding. I was shocked at their attitude towards me not wanting him to have formula milk.

I was basically made to feel like a complete pain in the arse, and whilst I appreciate they were keen to make sure he is getting enough milk, I was happy to express and beleive that breast milk is also benefitting my son. As it was I had to sit in a room with the door open and blind up to express milk at the breast pump (although I was the only one using it I wasn't allowed to move it) and as I was wearing a gown this meant sitting there in my knickers. The midwifes attitude was that there were no men around so it wasn't a problem.

Also I was told so much conflicting information, feeding should be anything from 10 minutes to 45 minutes every 3 hours, that bottle feeding him expressed milk would and would not stop him taking from the breast. That not offering the breast first would stop him taking from the breast. Everything conflicted and made me very confused. As it is we got home on Sunday and at the moment the feeding is much better.

I'm not going to sit here and say I will be breast feeding untill six months, but that is my aim, it is what I believe is best for my baby. But I think that without the medical knowledge I have, my outright stubborness and the education offered to me at the hospital where I gave birth to DS I may well have been worn down by the attitude of 'why not give him formula' at the hospital. Also, they have a variety of formula milk available to choose from, but not a nappy to give me when I ran out. How is that right?

Posy - hospitals who are going for the Baby Friendly status do re-train their midwives but yes there is a long way to go.... MWs and HVs have very little training (you'd be astiunded to hear how much we are nit talking days but hours!) on BF... BF counsellors study on average for 2 years !

Paolosgirl - I agree with you with the negative comments we also get to hear because we BF (and it gets worse as the baby gets older too). My current client was told by her friend "considering the problems you had with your first, why are you going through this again... " and then added "I mean what's the benefit for the baby?" - so clearly she hadn't a clue and bottlefed - but my client thought how unsupportive was that comment, her baby is 2 weeks old and didn't find this helpful. My client is delighted with how the BF is going and she has no plans to stop.

Well done Flossam - it goes to show how negative attitudes and lack of support (and knowledge) can really quickly spoil things !

Do you think the lack of family/"village" support has anything to do with it? For example, I had my children in Africa and you never saw a baby under three months out and about unless they were white or at the clinic. The mother would stay in bed with her baby, breastfeeding on demand, for three months while mum/aunts/sisters etc. looked after her and her other children.

Flossam, your experience was awful - I know just what you mean about sitting there in your knickers expressing. That's humilating and degrading.

How about - when you feel up to it - writing exactly what you have said here, and sending it to the director of midwifery? If the hospital is a Baby Friendly or would-be Baby Friendly one, you can even send it via their website as they are concerned to get feedback from mothers: send it here

Posy - I can't tell you how many mothers have presented me with sore and cracked nipples, and the words 'all the midwives said he was latched on just fine'....and I agree, it is a terrible indictment.

sinkingfast - I agree, we do not support early motherhood well in the UK. There is a lot of pressure to get back to 'normal'.

Personally, I assumed if it hurt he wasn't on right, so was pretty ruthless about removing him and starting again until it didn't hurt. It made a huge difference.

Thanks for the link tiktok, I've looked but surprisingly they weren't there! I did intend to have something to say about my experience there though. I'm a staff nurse and I'd like to think that I treat my patients with a little more respect. DP said I should of told the midwives what my job is and that then they might be 'nicer' to me, but why should it matter what job I do? They should be considerate and respectful to all patients. I thought I would write a letter of comment, not complaint to the PALS at the hospital. I am hoping that this will mean the letter is taken with less hostility and is therefore more likely help implement changes there. The only thing is getting round to doing it with a newborn!

Well...you could do a copy and paste of your post here, perhaps avoiding the words 'pain in the arse' , and email it to the director of midwifery, and yes, saying who you are (maybe not saying 'I hope I treat my patients with more respect' even though I am sure it is true, in case it stirs up inter-professional resentment!!)

I can understand why a letter of comment is appropriate - you don't want heads to roll or compo ;), just an assurance that things are not good, and that it seems to be institutionalised, not a result of short staff. I mean, poor information and conflicting information is nothing to do with being short staffed. Treating you with dignity when you were expressing is nothing to do with it either.

Go for it

i have no excuses. i didnt breastfeed and do not apologise for not doing so- i didnt want to so ner ner nerner ner

But breast/f is lovely and it's free so more justification to spend money on self! BF my DS is the best thing I've ever done and I haven't got much right in my life.

I breastfed for 2 months and expressed too.
It went well if you consider little one was hanging off by boob most of the day and night.
Had no latching on problems though and plenty of propaganda to read regarding breast is best.
I think it's important to remember to respect Mums decision whatever she chooses.
She needs help in whatever and not the guilt trip when a new baby is on the scene and hormones flying all over the place.
Mum knows best they used to say?

some very interesting recent comments on this thread. one point - although I had a very difficult time bfing, I would not discourage other women from bfing. this view point is partly influenced by the fact that my closest ante-natal class friend found bfing a breeze (baby that feeds every 3 hours for 5 minutes(!)). Her biggest problem was persuading the maternity ward midwives that her baby was fine despite not having the "regulation" twenty minutes on the breast. So I do see both sides of the argument, and would always say it was worth attempting bfing as there is some benefit to the baby with the colostrum even if you can't/won't bf past the start.

I was desparate to breast feed. I couldn't because of the drugs I was on for Crohn's disease. They didn't cross the placenta but did come out in breast milk and as they were immunosupressants they would not have provided an ideal start in life for my dd.

I even looked into having my milk taken away and "cleaned" of the drug but it was so prohibitively time consuming and although I was told it was possible I couldn't fine anywhere that could do it.

So threads like this really really piss me off big time. Before you open your big mouths why not think of those of us who can't breastfeed and how shit you make us feel with this sort of thread.

I got hell in hospital from lots of a**ehole midwives and nurses who couldn't even be bothered to read my notes and discover that I was not allowed to breast feed, one even tutted at me and shook her head. Unbelievable.

Do you honestly believe that anyone would have a go at you because you weren't able to breastfeed?
Get a grip woman!

As someone else stated, your feelings (whatever they are) are yours to choose and own. If this thread makes you feel bad (although I can't see why it should) I suggest you go and get involved in something more calming.

Well said, CD. I posted something similar on the other bf thread.
Mizmiz, your comments are so harsh. You obviously have no comprehension of how heartbreaking it is to want to breastfeed and not be able to.

the problem with these threads is that they preach to the converted - i.e. that people who knew the facts and chose to bottlefeed aren't affected by them, those who chose to bf and were successful can pat themselves on the back, and it is the people who wanted to breastfeed and couldn't that are most affected by them. failing to establish bfing despite desperately wanting to really mars your enjoyment of the beginning of your baby's life. i know that successfully establishing bfing can also be very difficult, but at least you have the satisfaction of succeeding and not be left with a sense of guilt.

i for one have felt quite down since this thread started, as it has taken me back to the very stressful time I had when failing to successfully establish bfing.

I'm not sure the "if it hurts, it's wrong" rule is entirely right. Maybe "if it hurts, get it checked"?

DS2 is a lovely nurser, rarely takes more than 10 or 15 minutes, gains about 8 oz/week. He's easy easy. Except: he sucks really really hard. He has massive suck blisters, not just the tiny one on the middle of the upper lip that is common, but ones that cover both lips, all the way across. I have pretty tough nipples, I think, but oh boy did it hurt at the start, every time. It took all my willpower to not teach DS1 exciting new words every time DS2 started up.

I think it was partly painful letdown, but partly just an overly enthusiastic baby. I had a breastfeeding counsellor friend check it out, and she had some suggestions about positioning, but felt things were generally fine. It has gotten a bit better, or at least I've got used to it. (My nipples aren't cracked or bleeding or anything, at least!)

I know that wanting to breastfeed and not managing to do so, or finding oneself unable to do so for whatever reason, can be utterly heartbreaking.

But why is it so wrong for someone to recount a personal experience of breastfeeding which is positive and life-affirming and which encourages others - this is a breast and bottle feeding board, after all!

Yes, I think these stories can make others feel horrible - and it's probably better not to read these boards if that's the case.

I think it is cruel, mizmiz, to disparage someone else's experience in the way you did. Midwives should read notes, and they should certainly be very careful about any tutting they do - as should we all.

Tiktok, no objection to reading accounts of how wonderful bf is. I am breastfeeding my second baby now and absolutely love it. But I do object to people being going on and on about how awful formula is - like on the other bf thread someone says how weird the sight of formula makes them feel. Find posts like that offensive and hurtful.

mizmiz:

"Do you honestly believe that anyone would have a go at you because you weren't able to breastfeed?"

I think you will find that the title of this thread is "why can't we all just breastfeed" (or a near coddism!)

Well my reason is one reason why. There are others too. I don't see why we should be strung up for it.

And agree I find the anti-formula comments hurtful. Some of us have no choice you know. It's not strychnine.

CD - The discussion was not at all (and it wasn't until you made the point) there to criticise people who canNOT breastfeed or even those who don't want to.... I wanted to know why those who seem to struggle can't always get passed the problem... yet they can in Sweden for example.
I am sorry if this thread upsets you but I have to agree with Tiktok - why read it ? I don't read some topics that I know will upset me.
Mizmiz - get a grip yourself !

The ttle of the thread is a question.
In your case presumably you will be wanting to say why indeed we CAN'T all breastfeed and that will be listened to with great interest and sympathy.

(No doubt someone will once again take issue with me for one reson or another.)

Pupuce, I always read threads about the bf/bottle debate even though I know I'll get really upset. It's just another way to torture self over not feeding dd my milk. And it's a way of letting those who smugly declare they'd never feed THEIR child formula that there isn't always a choice.