Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

Can we just agree to disagree and let this thread die? Why do you keep reviving it?

That's my last word. It's getting really tedious now.

Sorry Tasha, I leave work at 4pm and have a "no mn at home" policy...

I didn't even attempt to breastfeed so i can't exactly answer your question. It's more that i don't understand why some people seem to think bottlefeeding is "so much work". I spent more time making cups of tea and washing up mugs than doing anything bottle-related! On the other hand I definitely perceive breastfeeding to be restrictive and time-consuming, in the early days particularly, and I just wasn't going to risk being a soggy heap on the sofa with a wailing baby. I freely admit that i have control freak tendencies!

Well in that case, bow out gracefully.
Why should the thread die?
I have zero interest in Care Bears or the interpretation of dreams, but I wouldn't consider it my place to tell people not to talk about them.

BTW am in Middle East (not one of the fancy places with plush compounds!) but had ds and dd in the UK. Can't say where I live-paranoid that comment about dh's boring corporate do will lead to ghastly scenario whereby he loses his job because have insulted his colleagues.
V.v.v. unlikely I know, but seem to be suffering from post partum paranoia!

PS Bet you can't resist coming back for a final dig eh Gobbledigook?

What a shame I thought you'd want to hear it liking such things but will save it for another time....

Is there a restriction on the length of threads... hmm don't think so.

Moondog

So anyway, back to the point of the thread, does anyone think celebrities such as Davina McCall, Donna Air, Trinny Woodall and Kate Winslet waxing lyrical about their own pleasurable breastfeeding experiences in the media will help change the culture in this country about breastfeeding?

Yes, I do. It's a start. One of them needs to do a Lucy Lawless (Xena Warrior Princess) type poster, go on girls! I believe that NZ campaign was very effective.
Also think a soap star could really help out with this, does anyone know if any of the recent mums b/f? Kacey Ainsworth, maybe?

Kacey Ainsworth, yes. Jessie Wallace no - was pictured with a trolley load of SMA recently, and giving baby a bottle, so I guess she is not. I don't know if it influences anyone, really. Can't see someone breastfeeding or not breastfeeding just to copy a star....but I don't know

Oh, I'm sorry you don't feel it makes a difference Tiktok...I thought that if there were positive b/f messages filtering though the pages of the popular women's weekly mags, for example, it might encourage some mums to reconsider b/f as an option
Did you feel the NCT campaign showing a diverse range of mums b/f also didn't work?

I agree Marina that to some, if it is seen to be trendy, this may influence to an extent their decision, I supppose it really depends on the individual x

I am very cynical/realistic (delete according to mood!) about campaigns....I want to see positive images, of course, and I get irritated when I see myths being perpetrated on TV. I honestly don't know if it helps to see a wide range of women breastfeeding - too often, campaigns for breastfeeding are done without proper research into what makes a difference or not. Anyway, as the man said, '50 per cent of all advertising is a waste of money, trouble is we don't know which 50 per cent'

TBH, I am less interested in campaigns to change behaviour/choices than full-on, informed measures to actually help the women that choose to do it. I feel sad to think someone might choose to breastfeed because Kate Winslet or whoever says it's wonderful, or she sees a poster talking about bf, and then she hits one of the hospitals we read about here, where they either ignore you and your bf problems, tell you to give a bottle, or manhandle your breasts and your baby

She gives up, and then reads about the health impact of her 'choice' on her and her baby, and then sees another interview with Kate Winslet going on again about how wonderful bf is....and she feels bad because she didn't manage to do it.

She then resents the campaigns and the celebs and anyone else who talks about bf.

Getting slightly back to what I think was the original question raised on this thread ie different rates of breastfeeding in Sweden and the UK, I have a question.

Where can I find out about breastfeeding rates in the 60's,70's and 80's in both UK and Sweden?

Would I be out of the ordinary in saying that I breast fed simply because my Mother breast fed me and my 3 siblings? I simply gave it no more consideration than that. Maybe mistakenly, I made an assumption there wouldn't be a problem.
I should add this was before I discovered mumsnet!! I have had no other experience of babies atall

Sorry Picadilly Circus - posts crossed

Mrs Doolittle - I am the same (although with only one sibling). I just assumed that was how I would feed any children I had.

This thread is taking too long to load. Really should get broadband..

My post about rates in 60's 70's and 80's was along the same lines as yours Mrs D as I think that what you've seen as usual among your family , friends etc is likely to influence how you feel. So I was wondering about a comparison of breastfeeding rates when mothers now were babies.

You're right Tiktok. What is the point of pretty pics if the support is just not there when needed.
I do envy you both Mrs Doolittle and PicadillyCircus, my mum hated breastfeeding, talks about her experiences with revulsion, and thought I was mad to persevere with ds when I had problems. Cheers mum. I hope some day to provide better support if it's needed not just to dd but to ds and his partner...

Piccadilly Circus - google it "breastfeeding Sweden" - eventually you'll come up with some relevant websites - although I wasn't looking for that exactly I did notice that Sweden's bf rates in the 70's I think were a lot lower now and there was a list of things they have done to get the rate up to 98% at birth. Including no free formula in hospitals etc.

Have to say I couldn't find the thing about formula on prescription only, Uwila - I'm still looking - prehaps it wasn't Sweden.

Both my sister and I b/f our children until they were about 8 months, although we were both bottle fed as babies. Mum was as supportive as she could be, apart from one or two thoughtless remarks.

Bloss's comment on Tues summed it up for me :

IME, the widely held view that bfing inevitably involves hourly feeds and constantly being willing to flop them out at any time for the next 12 months is a HUGE hindrance. ...I would never ever have made it without GF and EBM and a decent prospect of getting away from it for a few hours once a week or so..... The minute that a MW or bfc told them that it was normal to have to feed 4-5 times a night when you're bfing, or to have to feed 1-2 hourly in the day, they gave up on the idea. ...Such a shame! With decent management, they could have bf long-term...

Bloss - I b'fed dd for 5 weeks (hated it) and due number 2 in Jan so off to research any old posts you have on feeding schedules etc ! I think what you've said is so true !

well i didnt want to comment on this bloomin thread but have been drawn to it! I also must comment that i have only read some of the threads so will probably repeat etc....

I fed my ds by breast until he was 6 weeks old, he then went on formula and i bf once a day. This was an informed decision and i decided that instead of my getting tired cos i had to bf every 2 hours i would give formula and get more sleep!!! by the time he was 8 weeks old he was on formula full time and having baby rice in the evening!!!!

AM I A BAD MUM? NO im not, my ds is healthy and i had the opportunity to bond with him just fine when giving a bottle of formula!

This thread has shocked me. I cant understand why so many people are so opinionated and have to force their views on people and make other mothers feel so bad about how they choose to bring up and feed their children. My sister has 3 healthy happy secure children and she has never breast fed! Im TTC at the momenty and know that although i will give bf a go i will only do it for a few weeks because of other commitments in my life, im also sure that my baby wont suffer from my decision so what is there to feel guilty about?

For all those mums who bf GOOD ON YOU but pleaase dont judge mums who use formula, it doesnt mean we love our children any less.

Bonkerz,
I in no way would ever want to judge you based on your feeding experiences, I believe evry woman has the right to choose how she feeds HER child. However i do feel you have got this thread wrong, it started off as an informed debate over breastfeeding rates and the differences between Sweden and UK. It WAS a valid discussion noone was trying to impose their views on others merely discuss WHY the differences, cultural etc. Unfortunately it only takes a couple to ruin a thread and turn it into a non productive free for all. I don't see many actually critiscising the right to chose to bottle feed, just exploring why these choices were made, in a constructive manner. Many breastfeeders have equally been slated on here and I think from both sides this is a shame, why people cannot constructively explore these issues is beyond me. Personally I feel very sad that both people who bottle feed and those who breastfeed have to justify themselves and resort to slinging accusations at others. Particularly mums who could be supporting eachother and LEARNING from others experiences anyway must go now wisdom tooth killing me, love and peace xx

Perhaps I am just very thick skinned and stupid, but I honestly haven't noticed any posting which implies that bottle feeding mothers are less loving, responsible, etc. etc., than any other mothers.

I have seen postings which have implied that in some cases, they may be less informed. And I think that that is not an outrageous slur, I think it is very often true. But again, I haven't seen it as a moral judgement, just a practical observation with a view to changing it. More often, I've seen postings which have commented on how much less support bottle-feeding mothers have received - again, not a moral judgement. I really don't understand why bottle feeding mothers should be offended by it (speaking as one myself).

caligula, you are not stupid but recently there have been some very personal and hurtful remarks made in other threads. dont bother reading them, they are downright nasty. in fact, steer well clear. even if you are thick skinned and they wont hurt your feelings, they will make your blood boil. they made one poor girl cry and have a sleepless night

ooh, where where? on second thoughts, don't tell me, or I'll never get any work done!

nailpolish, one poster cried not because anyone judged her, but because she learnt something about the health implications of formula feeding that was relevant to her (diabetes), that she had not been told about by her healthcare advisers. If she had been told, she would have breastfed. She was upset, naturally enough, and worried, but she did not feel angry against the people who had posted with this information - and she was helped to set the info into perspective, I think, and she may, of course, now, know more if she has another baby.

What is wrong with this? It's horrible to learn something we wish we had known before (I could give some examples from my own life, but I won't) and to have regrets about what we didn't know. But the only comment all week that purported to judge formula feeders was a rather mad one from zebra, who I note has stayed off these boards since then.

All the other posters bend over backwards to make it clear no one is criticising mothers who use formula in any way.

Bonkerz, read the threads - some of them are heated, and there are a few silly insults, but not about bottle feeders.