Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

Thanks aloha

MissChief - I am mystified. I do not know how you come to the conclusion that I (as an NCT 'rep') have refused any criticism of breastfeeding counsellors.....am I crazy enough to think bfcs are always beyond criticism? I acknowledged legle's unhelpful experience and encouraged her to take it further. My post yesterday at 10.10 to fisil outlined what a bfc's training consists of, and also asked people to complain if they feel they are not listened to, or if they feel criticised. I will say the same to you - if you feel your problem was not listened to, or you were dismissed or not taken seriously, then let the organisation involved know about it.

I am the world's least aggressive person, on here and IRL - so I am assuming that the accusation of aggression is directed at others.

you must be mellowing with age then Tiktok
. great to hear you can be so understanding.

aloha - I think you have a point. It seems clear that there are not many who have made a clear cut decision to bottle-feed (if you have then fine that is good if you are happy with your decision). There is a sort of grey area between the intention to b/feed prior to birth and sometime after when it fails and women give up (usually around 6 weeks). I'd say that most women aren't at all happy with their decision, hence the regrets and guilt... I'd say it wasn?t even a ?decision? in a lot of cases. I mean it's pretty hard to decide against formula if you are struggling after a difficult birth and the nurses are waving bottles in your face, pulling your boobs left, right and centre and you've maybe got a partner who isn't supportive? then you go onto have problems at home and it all turns bad. If the formula hadn?t been offered and the feeding sorted out within the first day or so then it could have been different. I know that the formula my son had in hospital and the refusal for a breastpump seriously interfered with my supply..

I think that time just after birth is crucial and you can?t be wishy-washy about it ? like ?oh well give it a go but if it doesn?t work then just put him on formula? I mean that is almost inviting failure before you even start. Unfortunately you have to be quite militant about it at that time and maybe that is why the Norway models work, they just get on with it and then fine they can always decide to give up afterwards but at least then you?ve got a choice. Again I stress this is only the case for women who want to breastfeed but it seems that nearly all do, or at least open to the idea of it.

If I had my time again with my ds I would have gone to a breastfeeding support group before the birth, not after, bought my La Leche Book months before and done lots of research, taken a pump into hospital with me and refused the formula. Fortunately we did succeed but it took 6 weeks of hard work to get there, and ALL of those problems could have been avoided.

I just skimmed through the ?other? thread and this one caught my eye ? I hope you don?t mind me copying it again JulieF

?As someone who chose to formula feed my daughter from birth it was hard for me to come to terms with some of these things and to realise that what I hadn't done the best I could for her. It was equally hard to make the decision to use some formula for my failing to thrive son but at least that time it was a fully informed choice.

Everyone does the best they can with the helpsupportpersonal feelings available to them at the time and for some people formula is the best choice for them. What I do feel is that it is important to educate new mums so that they have all the facts avaialt to them. Only then can a choice be said to be informed.?

I thought this was really brave of JulieF to actually admit that she had made a bad decision. This is so much more of a positive, lets-move-on attitude than just reiterating the same old ?well I just did the best thing, don?t have a go at me?? kind of stuff that goes round and round here? it helps no-one? if you made an ?informed choice? then good but it seems that people are far from informed. They lack the right information (only knowing the ?breast is breast? ?catchy? kind of advert.. without actually knowing why it is best and persisting on holding onto all kinds of weird myths (sometimes its almost like the Dark Ages). Most importantly of course they aren?t given the tools to actually make it work. You?d not expect anyone to bake a cake unless they?d been to classes, the first attempt could be a disaster. Unfortunately you can?t practice breastfeeding over and over which is why its so important to have the facts and the support. I was hoping we?d hear more stories of ?What went wrong? here so that pupuce and others could learn from then. Unfortunately its largely turned into another sulky session of ?leave us alone, we are good mothers, there is more to life than breastfeeding etc? Yeah like we really didn?t think there was, and did anyone actually say any different, but like can?t we just talk about it as a topic please ?.

Think I?ve said enough on this and the thread is awfully long now.

Eulalia (can't bloody believe I'm drawn back to this boring old thread again) - you like JulieF's comments only because at the end of the day she is agreeing with you. Why can't you accept that some people choose to bottle feed fully informed of the facts and are quite happy with it?

Ift it'll shut you up and let this thread die I'll tell you I lie awake at night feeling bad about my decision (but I'm lying of course).

gdg - get back to the 'should I be shot' thread NOW!

I'm going!

after reading all of the threads on this I now feel that I made the right choice to bottle feed when I felt I needed too. Nothing that has been said has made me think otherwise. I have read the facts now, I made the descion and now am getting on with the job of raising my child!

Gobbledegook - God you are a real killjoy aren't you? You didn't even read my previous post properly where I stated that if you were happy with your decision then fine. Good for you if you are happy with your decison - if you are so happy with your decision then why the hell are you bothering to even read these messages let alone post useless, negative comments.

The fact remains that many people ARE NOT happy with the treatment they receive from the health profession and this whole thread is intended to find out WHY.

Some people aren't so mean as you and actually talk about their experiences to help others, that is what Mumsnet is supposed to be about. Others, like you just make silly, negative comments and constantly attack speakers without any proper argument. God even a child could do that. You are boring me so I'll go away until someone has something constructive to say.

My 2pworth -
The main crux of this thread was - if the bf rate in Sweden is 98% and remains much higher there - why do we do so poorly here?

There can be no argument that a bf rate of 98% is a desirable thing. And clearly too many women in this country are not getting the right sort of support. I worry most about how to change the attitudes of the women who "just don't want to" - that's a societal thing and will take years to change - probably centuries judging by the responses of people on this thread ;)

Personally, I think that formula milk should be prescription only, as in Sweden (perhaps I should go an live there). It should be the norm to bf. And I shouldn't have midwives pressurising me to formula feed my children when they are less than 24 hours old.

What happened to my wink ;)

Judetheobscure, did you say that formula is prescription only in Sweden?

I'm not worthy.

Unlike Eulalia who has her head firmly shoved up her own arse.

Why be so $$$$ing rude gobbledigook?

Grow up! gdg

Seems to me too that the bottlefeeding brigade has many unresolved issues - sigh

that was uncalled for gdg

See if you have no feelings of guilt why would you even bother getting angry??? It would just pass you by!

i can see tho that gdg was provoked.

Was she ? By what?

And does that justify being rude like this ?

read eulalia's post of 1.13.

Can anyone tell me if formula in sweden is sold by presription only?

velcrobott - guilt or no guilt, when breastfeeding mums go on and on and on and ON about how great bf'ing is and how much better they are than everyone else for doing it, you'd have to be a saint not to get seriously annoyed by it!! I got over my bottlefeeding guilt a long time ago, mainly when nothing bad happened to dd because of it - but it still make smy blood boil when some breasfeeders set themselves up on a pedestal!!!

Can I just remind everyone, that while vigorous debate is great, and v stimulating, MN will not tolerate personal attacks or insults. Maybe having a look at the mn philosophy may help. Thanks

i wasn't endorsing gdgs use of that sort of language. just pointing out in fairness to gdg that some personal comments had been made on both sides.