Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

mts - that was a response to gdg's post of 12.32...

Think for sanity's sake all of us bottle-feeders that might get annoyed/offended at some of the idiotic comments on here should just avoid this thread like the plague. and that does include me so ciao!

nonononono - i'm staying out of this, i'm staying out of this, i'm staying out of this...

When bottlefeeding mums go on and on and on and ON about how great bottlefeeding is, how happy they are with their choice and complain when breastfeeers want to discuss breastfeeding, you'd have to be a saint not to get seriously annoyed by it See it works both ways.

Have read this thread and lurked but just popping out of the woodwork for a moment....

I think on both sides, us mums want what is best for our kids - it is when someone suggests our choice may not be best with all things taken into consideration that people get cross.

I did both from ds being tiny and do feel that 'giving up' breast feeding made me feel guilty. But I think that it is sensible to decide what is best for you baby and your family taking ALL things into consideration.

There is enough for parents to feel worried about in this day and age. Mums need to support each other and recognise that it is a 'choice' and more often than not, a 'informed and considered' choice that leads people to their method of feeding/weaning/sleeping/schooling etc. People deserve respect - isn't that what MN is about?

popsycal, I understand the meaning behind

"Mums need to support each other and recognise that it is a 'choice' and more often than not, a 'informed and considered' choice that leads people to their method of feeding/weaning/sleeping/schooling etc."

but when it comes to feeding, the evidence is that literally, more often than not, the feeding method they end up 'choosing' is not the one they want. Somewhere or other (maybe on this thread) I posted the research on this - that one per cent of breastfeeders who gave up before 6 weeks did so because they had breastfed for as long as planned. That leaves a massive 99 per cent who stopped for other reasons Figures for older babies are still low - 2 and four per cent I think, for babies up to and after 4 mths.

I don't think anything bad about formula feeders - why would I? I don't know everyone's personal circumstances - but I think the sad thing is that while we should support each other, that doesn't mean ignoring the fact that many people end up doing things they really didn't choose to do.

The same goes for lots of 'decisions' in life.

I agree tiktok......and my decision to mix feed and then gradually bottle feed more and more was not really 'choice' as such - but in terms of circumstance, and all things considered, it was the best option. Won't bore you with the details of the circumstance.

Just think mums get enough grief without giving grief to one another!

oh my gosh, I just checked this thread from yesterday to see how it had moved on and can't believe I have just read a reference to 'bottlefeeding terrorists' and 'bottlefeeding brigade'. FFS.

Aloha I'm really stumped by your post of 11.12 am ! I can't for the life of me figure the beginning out. It sounds as if you are asking me if this is what I meant by 'not accepting criticism' or something like that and I have scrolled down and can't see where I said that at all ??? Have I gone mad (possibly). Pupuce recommended that I should complain about the counsellor and I reply I wish I had. Can you explain what you mean!

I am suprised this thread is still going. I think pupuce wanted a reply to the question, which is a good point. But dont judge others just because you beleive they have lesser standards than yourself. We live in a country where choices and rights are accessable to all. We all make our own choices in life given our circumstances and the 'card' we are dealt. Dont judge others. At the end of the day whjether from the bottle or breast our kids were all fed and cared for, which is more than can be said for some poor kids.

legle, aloha was referring to MissChief, not you, I think

oh thank god, I really thought I'd had one of those time lapse moments !!!!!!!!!!!! Its happening to me more and more of late

Errr hi... been reading and decided to be brave and stick my neck out. I think the phlosophy of sweeden is an interresting one. And if we had that kind of policy here everyone would just get on with it, much as people just "get along" with the policies we do have. I think that all mums deserve HUGE respect just for /being/ mums in the first place. I think the main issue should be more support for mums that want to breastfeed, it's all about society and it's expectancies. I think that if there was more support for women that wanted to breast feed for a long time then simply more women would. The choice to bottle feed would be considered the second choice by everyone. Because at the end of the day it IS whats best for babies, /not to say that bottle fed babies are deprived/ thats not what its about. It's about what nature intended and has gone on with for thousands of years. The facts are that society has become used to bottle feeding. It's just time to remind everyone that although there is nothing wrong with bottle feeding. Breast came first! Someone said it's all about the reasons women give up/ don't want to. It's very rarely personal, it's normally about public exposure/ worries about negative comments/ that type of thing. I've never heard a woman telling me the bottle is easier! What could be easier that just whipping out your boob! The days bottle became fashion have a lot to answeer for. Because /that/ is when all the support disapeared. (i really hope i haven't offended anybody, i didn't intend to if i did, and i'll just say again that ALL mums deserve medals!)

Where's moondog? She'll bring some calm and sanity back to the thread .

Uwila,

Now I'm trying to find where I read it - perhaps it was wrong - I'll keep looking - and hoping that it was true. After all, formula would then be free to those who need it, which is how it should be.

But bottle feeders are *always" saying it's easier - "you can give the baby to someone else to feed" .....

I think bottle feeding may be easier for the mum in the sense that the work can be shared with dad, grandma, nanny, whomever. But, the cleaning, mixing, sterilising, storing, and so on does clearly create more work.

Jude/uwilla
I didn't really think of it like that. But then i always expressed so i could go out for an hour or two, or so someone else could do the nighttime feed once in a while. (Not that i was that successful an expresser). But then when you get into expressing you get all the agro of bottle feeding anyway. i guess i was thinking from the point of veiw of a mum that at home during the day.

but then that's not the case for everyone. plus if you have an overbearing family that always want to take your baby frm you 24/7 it's a good way to keep at least /some/ control

Infant Feeding 2000 survey shows 25 per cent of mothers who bottle feed from birth give 'other people can feed the baby' as a reason for their choice. It's far and away the most common reason.

Jude, special formula is on prescription for babies in the UK who are not breastfed and who are unable to take ordinary cows milk formula - but they need to have a medical diagnosis of this, which is fair enough, I think, especially as special formulas are very expensive.

I'd be against regular formula being available on prescription, and therefore free, because whether or not to give formula would then become the doctor's decision, and not the mother's.

Mothers might then come under real pressure to breastfeed, and I would not be comfortable with this. It's really not up to my doctor how I feed my baby.

I don't know what the situation is in Sweden.

i know that's what people say... i just wonder if that is really how they feel. How much is influence? Or just the need of a good reaon without discussing how they actualy DO feel. i only have my own, and close friends, experience to go by of course. And I'm sure some are genuine... but all?

Nah, i'm keeping out of this one now Puff although I keep on popping in to see what is going on (as I note does my old sparring partner Gobbledigook! She's getting a bit of hammering next door too! Feel almost sorry for her..)

Just trawling to see what's going down..contributed a bit to the real nappy thread but no comebacks. Even read the formula thread without my fingers going into involuntary spasms (must say I always did wonder how you go about choosing one.)

Actually need a recipe for cheesecake as am hosting v. boring corporate do for dh and its one of the things I want to make, but I've left my cookery books behind. Already bought 4 cartons of what I thought may be cream cheese and have turned out to be variously butter,cheese spread,yoghurt and some sort of lard. Best go and look for a recipe (but can't get quite as excited about that as I do about b/feeding somehow.

God there are some heroic people on this site!
I just wish I met people like you in 'real' life!

Gobbledigook, that was, IMO, a nasty insult. Why are you so keen to tell other people to shut up and stop discussing something of interest to them? It's not your forum. It's not mine either, but I don't keep telling other people what they can and can't talk about.
What I do find hard to swallow is people saying that it is people who don't breastfeed who are being judged when this thread is absolutely packed with really unpleasant insults hurled at people who are trying to discuss why breastfeeding is so difficult for so many people in this country. It goes against everything MN stands for.
Saying that breastmilk is a healthier choice than formula milk for the majority of babies is a fact, not a judgement. It's like saying eating broccoli is a healthier choice than eating pop-tarts, or that drinking a glass of red wine is healthier than drinking a bottle of it. I don't feel judged by knowing the truth, even if I don't for my own reasons eat enough broccoli and drink too much wine.
However, sneering at posters saying things like "yawn", "You are giving me a headache' and 'You've got your head stuck up your arse' or calling people terrorists, arrogant, boring, pompous & smug is not actually contributing anything to a debate, surely? This thread is absolutely packed with people saying "This isn't personal" "I'm not judging anyone" "Of course some people cannot breastfeed and some people don't want to" - but WHY is it so outrageous to simply pose the two questions "Why do so many British women find it so hard when physically identical women in other countries don't seem to?" and "Why do women reject the idea of breastfeeding when in other countries they don't have a problem with it" and look at the kind of society and culture we live in and how it contributes to women feeling uncomfortable about breastfeeding (eg early returns to work, negative comments, peer pressure etc) and examine the question of whether enough of the right kind of support and help is available to women who want to breastfeed so they don't either have insurmountable problems, never really get started or end up giving up before they are ready to and regret it, as so many women clearly do.
I think it is interesting to hear from people who didn't breastfeed either by choice or circumstance as to their reasons, if they want to give them, as of course it illuminates the debate. Insults don't do that.

Not sure if it was a genuine question PocketTasha, but for me bottlefeeding was much easier. But then I don't really get this thing that sterilising etc. takes ages. Dishwasher on 60 does the job and as for making bottles-well they were done in a batch and dd just had them cold from the fridge...

Each to their own though!