Working from home, breastfeeding, zoom meetings

[jadelou85]

Since the lockdowns my company has set thing up to allow most of us to work from home so my whole return to work hasn't been the wrench / challenge that I thought it would be. We do have a lot of zoom meetings and to start with everyone including my boss was fine if I dropped out of meetings if I needed to feed. I still had the feeling some people thought I was using it as an excuse so a few weeks ago I just told my boss I needed to feed but I was OK to carry on with our meeting. I managed to be discreet and was pretty chuffed with myself until right at the end I had a mssive slip-up becuase I was paying more attention to the meeting than what I was doing. I probably wouldn't have attempted it again after that but since that day I've felt more and more pressure to 'just get on with it' and take the multi-tasking approach. He hasn't been direct about it but my boss has made more than one comment along these lines even though he was always fine with me dropping our occasionally before. I literally feel I'm being pressured into now and I don't know how to deal with it. I feel lucky to be allowed to work from home but it feels a bit like an ultimatum like stay on meetings if you need to BF or come back to the office. Can someone help me put this in perspective and even better suggest how to deal with it or how to approach the subject without it being any more uncomfortable than it needs to be?

@Zarene

People want to know who's looking after the baby because it affects the answer.

If you're trying to look after a baby yourself and WFH, then there are myriad reasons your colleagues are getting pissy, it's just that BFing is the visible one.

If someone else is, and they're just hanging you a hungry baby that's different.

I've fed on lots of work zoom calls, and it's always been fine. But I'm always focused on work -for me the joy of BFing is that the baby doesn't care how focused you are on them, as long as they have a nipple in their mouth. It's a brilliant way to multitask!

Thank you. Yes, feeding is the only issue. That's why it was the only thing I mentioned. I'm glad someone else actually understands that breastfeeding doesn't actually prevent you from thinking, or having a meaningful conversation etc.

Breastfeeding is a protective characteristic. Your boss' opinion on your family's decision on feeding set up is not law.
Just smile and nod and do it your way.
Your baby is hungry; you're responding normally!!

@SaltySheepdog

Can the camera be angled head up so that it doesn’t show your chest

Sort of but it's part of the monitor so it's a pain. I can improve on my last attempt but honestly I'd rather just rather agree I'm OK to turn it off if and when the situation comes up again.

childcare arrangements, feeding aside, are the same as they would be if I was in the office.

I'm genuinely a little bit stuck here because that seems to me like a huge aside. Childcare arrangements which involve interrupting your work unexpectedly and for unpredictable periods (a feed might take 2 mins or it might take 30, so not comparable to eg popping to the toilet) are unusual and rarely tolerated in either an office or a wfh situation. I'm trying to understand it - is there a childminder suddenly turning up at the front door whenever your baby is showing signs they need a feed? Many working mothers here (who have just worked through a pandemic!) are sceptical about your arrangement, so I can imagine your employer/boss/colleagues feeling like this also.

You seem to still be dodging the question about how old your child is, which influences this. I did a lot of studying whilst breastfeeding when my firstborn was under four months, and then it stopped working so well as he became distractible, learned to grab my face or twiddle the other nipple or whatever. If your child is still very young, firstly well done for combining with work whilst you're still in the thick of babyhood!, but also, be aware that a manageable bf interruption may not always be so manageable. With both of mine they reached an age where I found that just putting them to the breast and then ignoring them didn't sit right other than in dire emergencies.

A workplace with a cameras-on policy has presumably chosen that policy because they're suspicious that someone with their camera off is doing something other than working, so i can see why they'd be unsympathetic when you are literally wanting to switch your camera off to do something other than work.

Some of 'professionalism' is about conveying the right impression and not just 'getting the work done'. I reckon I could contribute meaningfully to a meeting whilst also pottering around in my pyjamas making tea and toast, but it looks rude (and I guess is also distracting to others) so I can't do it. I suspect caring for a baby falls into the same category.

Thanks. I mean there is quite a lot involved in 'childcare' aside from the feeding - you obviously know that already though. I don't have to worry about any of that though...it is literally just the feeding. A lot of times it's manageble without getting in the way of work in the slightest. But it's the times that it's not so manageble that are the issue. It's only an occasional thing and I've been positively encouraged and reasured that it's not an issue to do it. What I'm still struggling with is all that said it does't seem like too much to ask to be make the occasional exception to the cameras on in meetings rule. It was actually brought in right at the beginning of people suddenly working from home to make meetings as 'normal' as possible. I get it and I was actually fine with it because I'm confident enought to feed just about anywhere without showing anything but it's always the case when you least want something to happen it happens. It went from all being well to embarassment bordering on humiliation to be honest. If I'm trying to dodge anything it's that happening again.

Who is actually saying your camera must be on? I think that's just the WFH policy but isn't exactly going to refer to it when a woman is breastfeeding.

I think this whole thing is a non issue and blown out of proportion by yourself.

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

Who is actually saying your camera must be on? I think that's just the WFH policy but isn't exactly going to refer to it when a woman is breastfeeding.

I think this whole thing is a non issue and blown out of proportion by yourself.

It is the policy and yes you'd think an exception could be made ocassionally. That pretty much is the issue. But my boss has said more than ones about it applying to everyone on meetings and the way he says 'everyone'....it's just feels really obvious. If it was months ago or I wouldn't have thought so much of it but it's right on the back of all the reassurance and encouragement about everyone being relaxed about feeding and on meetings...more or less encouraged to actually. There really woulnd't be a problem if it wasn't for the camera issue and rightly or wrongly because I did actually expose myself to him (with some help) I feel even more uncomfortable about bringing it up.

I was on a Zoom call this week with a colleague who turned their camera off to feed their baby and I thought nothing of it. Have also had various colleagues’ children appearing on camera briefly over last 18 months and we all understood - none of them do it as a matter of course but eg in lockdown or when childcare falls through, we’re just grateful that they have tried to keep working rather than letting us down when it was very busy.

If I was you, I think I’d just send your manager a message along the lines of “sorry for the accidental overexposure on the call the other week whilst I was feeding DC, I’m sure you understand that I’m now a bit wary of doing it on camera so on the occasional time I need to feed when on a call, I’ll be turning my camera off”. But equally it’s very easy to just angle the camera up to just show your head - tbh I tend to do that anyway as otherwise I feel like I’m drawing attention to my bust!

@AliMonkey

I was on a Zoom call this week with a colleague who turned their camera off to feed their baby and I thought nothing of it. Have also had various colleagues’ children appearing on camera briefly over last 18 months and we all understood - none of them do it as a matter of course but eg in lockdown or when childcare falls through, we’re just grateful that they have tried to keep working rather than letting us down when it was very busy.

If I was you, I think I’d just send your manager a message along the lines of “sorry for the accidental overexposure on the call the other week whilst I was feeding DC, I’m sure you understand that I’m now a bit wary of doing it on camera so on the occasional time I need to feed when on a call, I’ll be turning my camera off”. But equally it’s very easy to just angle the camera up to just show your head - tbh I tend to do that anyway as otherwise I feel like I’m drawing attention to my bust!

Thank you for this. I used to do the same or just sit closer but since Covid we got new screens which are (a) masisve and (b) the cameras are built into the screen so it's not so easy. Anyway, dogs cats, children - you name it - all pop up from time to time on our calls as well and I'm pretty sure most people see it as a reminder that we all have lives outside work. Employers probably need more time to adjust as well I suppose.

If push comes to shove can they insist on cameras on without any exception? I can see I should just tackle it head on anyway but I was so mortified at the time I could't think of a way to word it. Like anything I say will come accross as making an even bigger deal out of it when I'm sure he'd rather forget it just as me.

If push comes to shove can they insist on cameras on without any exception?

Yes, employers can dictate how they want meetings to run.

Their policies and practices must be in keeping with employment legislation and the Equality Act.

They have permitted you to breastfeed during meetings, but they have no legal obligation to do so.

You decide, as the employee, if you want to breastfeed on camera, or not at all during meetings. It’s really that simple.

They are not preventing your child from feeding.

What an odd thread. Just move away from the camera? It’s still on, your boss isn’t perv if on you and you can still see and hear what’s going on. It’s a non issue

I'm pretty sure they could not insist on it being on.

I think they have to provide a room for you to express in so I'd imagine WFH they have to have things in place.

Have you spoken to HR for advice?

@DragonDoor

If push comes to shove can they insist on cameras on without any exception?

Yes, employers can dictate how they want meetings to run.

Their policies and practices must be in keeping with employment legislation and the Equality Act.

They have permitted you to breastfeed during meetings, but they have no legal obligation to do so.

You decide, as the employee, if you want to breastfeed on camera, or not at all during meetings. It’s really that simple.

They are not preventing your child from feeding.

I actually don't think this can be true. Are you in HR?

www.nct.org.uk/life-parent/work-and-childcare/returning-work/breastfeeding-and-returning-workthis might be helpful for contacts to speak to for advice.
But I'd definitely ask HR first.

I have absolutely no doubt they would say "just switch your camera off whilst BF" and if your manager has an issue with it, divert him to HR

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

I'm pretty sure they could not insist on it being on.

I think they have to provide a room for you to express in so I'd imagine WFH they have to have things in place.

Have you spoken to HR for advice?

They do if you're actually in work but it's different working from home...if you applied all the same rules you'd stop work and and feed or express but it's actually pretty common and accepted that you don't necessaraly have to stop work becuase there's no one else there to see...until you bring in the video call/meeting issue. I'm hoping it doesn't even come to it but I don't think they could insist on leaving a camera on either but that's just what feels right/wrong. I don't really know.

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

www.nct.org.uk/life-parent/work-and-childcare/returning-work/breastfeeding-and-returning-workthis might be helpful for contacts to speak to for advice. But I'd definitely ask HR first.

I have absolutely no doubt they would say "just switch your camera off whilst BF" and if your manager has an issue with it, divert him to HR

That's what I'd expect them to say as well. The more time I have to think about it the more petty it feels. Definitley want to avoid any proper conflict at the same time.

Stack the screen up on books so it’s higher and only shows your face on camera. Mine only shows me from the neck up because I’m fat and self conscious and the room I work in is a tip

@RobinPenguins

Stack the screen up on books so it’s higher and only shows your face on camera. Mine only shows me from the neck up because I’m fat and self conscious and the room I work in is a tip

I can relate to all of this...and the area that's visible to colleagues is by far the tidiest part of the house!

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

*DragonDoor
If push comes to shove can they insist on cameras on without any exception?

Yes, employers can dictate how they want meetings to run.

Their policies and practices must be in keeping with employment legislation and the Equality Act.

They have permitted you to breastfeed during meetings, but they have no legal obligation to do so.

You decide, as the employee, if you want to breastfeed on camera, or not at all during meetings. It’s really that simple.

They are not preventing your child from feeding.

I actually don't think this can be true. Are you in HR?*

I’m not in HR, but familiar with the law around breastfeeding. There is a difference between the the right people have to breastfeed in public, and steps that employers should take to facilitate breastfeeding mothers in the workplace.

OP’s manager has requested cameras should be on during meetings. It makes sense that it’s a blanket request for everyone.

Unless the meetings last all day, there are other opportunities for OP to breastfeed or express, so she is not being discriminated against by by law.

She could ask if it would be ok for her to turn her camera off when feeding, but would it illegal to refuse this request? No. She has the option to breastfeed at other times of the day.

Thank you @DragonDoor.

Yeh so I think the best thing is to just speak with HR and that way the matter will be resolved (hopefully in your favour) and you don't need to worry about it @jadelou85
It doesn't have to be "this is an issue" type thing you could just say "looking for advice on this situation" and see what they say.

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

Thank you *@DragonDoor*.

Yeh so I think the best thing is to just speak with HR and that way the matter will be resolved (hopefully in your favour) and you don't need to worry about it @jadelou85
It doesn't have to be "this is an issue" type thing you could just say "looking for advice on this situation" and see what they say.

So message to boss about it first or straight to HR?

If you feel comfortable, the most sensible thing would be to discuss with your boss first.

Be very clear about what your request is. What is the outcome you want?

To be off screen for the whole meeting or just briefly when latching etc.?

Some tips about re organising your work station and screen?

I would say contact HR if you can’t come to an agreement/compromise, (but bear in mind that workplaces legally don’t have to accommodate breastfeeding during meetings)

I do hope you all work something out.

Yes, I agree, message your boss but if he doesn't agree to it then contact HR.

Tbh either/or
I think it depends on the company style/manager style etc.

If you feel comfortable enough to email your manager, just do that.

Otherwise if just send a quick "just wondering.." email to HR.
HR are there to answer questions so it's not a bad thing to go to them either.

Either way, I'd definitely do it in writing not on phone, so that you have a response in writing and can use it as back up if required

breastfeeding doesn't actually prevent you from thinking, or having a meaningful conversation etc.

None of us commenting on this thread think this, as far as I can see. I certainly don't, having b/f 3 DC for lengthy periods.

I think you are making an enormous fuss over a situation that is designed to accommodate you.

You refuse to say the age of your baby but they are at least 6 months if you are back at work. Therefore it should not be an issue as their feeds can absolutely be structured around meetings.

You also need to stop drawing comparisons with the pandemic period, and interruptions from children. We are long past that now. In my job, it is now not acceptable when I am wfh for my DC to interrupt my work, as we are not working in emergency measures any more.

You are really fortunate to have the opportunity to wfh & continue b/f'ing. It's great. Just structure your time so it's not an issue. If there's a meeting that clashes with a feed, have expressed milk available for your caregiver to use instead. As you say, this is a rare occasion so really not worth emails to HR etc.