So is it just me who has viscerally negative reactions to talk about breastfeeding 4 or 5 year olds

[TwigorTreat]

Now look I know its different strokes for different folks and I am not judging anyone as I know logically that its fine and anyone who does is doing what they deem their very best for their own children.

But I am talking about a experiencing a sense of distaste that I cannot help. I do have a negative and almost physical reaction to the thought of breastfeeding my 3 year old let alone an older child. And I have discussed this before when it came to extending breastfeeding for my own child beyond 6 months and with the discussion was capable of making it past that psychological barrier to 11 months.

Perhaps the thought of having a reasonable discussion over this particular reaction is just a step too far for us on Mumsnet. But I thought I'd give it a go anyway .. what, with it being Saturday and all that.

Anyone who experiences the same sense of negativity will no doubt need to gulp down hard before adding to this discussion. Just as anyone who is on the 'other side of the fence' will need to take copious amounts of oxygen into their system to calm down before posting .. I hope both sides do though... it could be interesting and educational

thing is you've got to realise you are going to offend people.

my view on bottlefeeding is similar to yours on breastfeeding but i wouldn't start a post about it and not expect to upset people/get lynched

well tbh I think anyone who has an experience of distaste or finds it "creepy" is the one with the problem.

so, why do you feel this way?
if you can come up with some reasons then maybe I can find some area for debate.

otherwise if it is just "visceral distaste" then I don't know where to start.

it seems as illogical to me as "I don't like black people" or "I don't like disabled people". just primitive prejudice and I don't see how or why I should engage with blind prejudice.

I also find it interesting that we are all supposed to support everyone's feeding choices but apparently extended breastfeeders/self weaners are fair game for insults.

let's try this one:

"I have a visceral negative reaction to feeding a baby formula, I think it is distasteful and creepy."

I'd like to see where that thread ended up

Full moon alert

I have read your OP
I still don't see any reasons. and you need actual reaosns before you can have a reasonable debate.
you just have a negative reaction.
how can we possibly respond to that?
where is the resonable discussion to be had?
I honestly can't see it right now.come on Twig, why do you find is distasteful?

my point exactly harpsi (you put it much more eloquently than i could tho!)

So what if you find breastfeeding 'older' toddlers/children distasteful? That has absolutely no bearing on the issue of whether it is healthy or worthwhile for the mother and child involved.

To give another example, lots of (young) people find the idea of old people having sex disgusting - it's a common 'joke' on sitcoms etc. Does that mean that it's somehow wrong or unhealthy for old people to have sex? Of course not.

In any case, it's pretty rare to see anyone feeding a child older than 2 in public. How often do you actually have to witness this 'distasteful' activity?

Twig, perhaps you could try to explain why you find it distasteful. If it's just a visceral reaction with no intellectual analysis then I don't think you can expect other people to have a lot of respect for your postition. My four-year-old has a visceral negative reaction when he sees black people, because we live in a very white area. The only civilized response is to analyse the situation and try to overcome the visceral reaction if it is not based on anything meaningful, surely?

It's just not right, innit?

x-posts harpsi

I don't mind having the debate at all, I just want a bit more meat on the bones of the OP

lots of people don't like looking at physically disabled people in public. especially if they have physical deformities, or if they behave oddly or eat messily.
some people no doubt have a physical visceral reaction to this sight.
those people are probably best keeping thos attitudes to themselves.

I actually think that formula feeders on this site get given a hard time implicitly tbh

I fear for my blood pressure here tbh
I might just fuck off, if no-one minds
there isn't enough oxygen in the world to deal with loads of people coming on and going yuk and telling me I'm creepy
if someone says abuse again I swear my head will explode

I have to say, whilst not an extended bfer myself, I can see how this is deeply insulting to those women who do it.

This is not the place to air it if you know how offensive the sentiment is.

It is like saying 'Is it just me that has viscerally negative reactions to homosexuals?', and expecting a reasonable discussion.

I know where you are coming from Twig. I totally agree with Morocco though - a person's reaction to extended BF is shaped in a huge way be their own experiences.

DD is 15 months and I still BF. I remember that when she was 3 months DH and I agreed that it would be "weird" to carry on once she was 1. However, DD loves the breast and I love the closeness of feeding her. So we are continuing and at the moment it doesn't feel weird. DH is very supportive too. Having said that I would never feed her in public at this stage. I am too self concious and caouldn't deal with the looks. I have also told various friends that I am no longer BFing. So maybe I am being fanciful to say I do not feel at all weird about it.

I think it is sad that I do not feel comfortable that the way our society is, means that I am embarrassed about the one act of mothering that gives my DD greatest pleasure and comfort.

Twig, that really isn't the point I am making, what has that got to do with anything?
do you have any reasons, or is this just a disgustathon.

oh - xposts with the point harpsi was making!

On the one hand, I believe that until I hear that extended breastfeeding is in any way harmful or traumatic for the child, then live and let live.
On the other (completely self-serving) hand, I will be interested to see how this pans out in comparison to any thread that 'questions' or looks to innocently 'discuss' Formula feeding.
Also my own feelings are not consistent as (knowing no extended bfers is rl) those posters who I personally feel to be somewhat neurotic on the whole BF topic, I also tend to think probably go in for ext bf as an extension of said neuroticism. But there is at least one poster who seems completely sane and rational on the subject and I view her extended BFing as a really lovely and inspiring choice.

That's me you're talking about with the sanity and the rationality, right Jezza?

FWIW I expect that Twig is far from alone in this, she's just one of the few people prepared to put her views out there.

OK, trying to pour oil on troubled waters - I have fed all of mine for different stages and had different emotions with all of them - the last one lost interest at 7 months, which broke my heart as I can't face the thought yet of saggy lemon tits with only the menopause to look forward to. But well done Twig for asking why as by challenging your gut feeling in this forum, you are decalring yourself open to other points of view - if you have been soley 'all breastfeeding past such and such a point is yuck then maybe you WOULD have shared this only with your friends rather than here.

It would be weird to take a random 3, 4 or 5 year old (or even your own 3, 4 or 5 year old) and start breastfeeding him or her. But that's different from feeding your newborn baby and each day thinking "is there a particular reason to stop today if my child doesn't want to, given that breastfeeding was fine yesterday?".

I do think that you don't just "have a negative reaction to the concept of my feeding my walking, talking, shirt-lifting children from the breast" given that you say yourself that you had a big psychological block with feeding past 6 months that you had to work really hard to deal with.

Natural doesn't necessarily equate to good, but "creeping you out" doesn't necessarily equate to bad. At least, its creeping you out would probably make it a bad idea for you to try breastfeeding an older child, because there would just be too many negative associations to make it a positive or helpful experience for all involved. But creeping you out doesn't make it a bad idea for me to breastfeed my nearly three-year-old.

And I genuinely don't see why giving a child milk from a cow that's an OK-I-suppose mix to the nutritional needs of a human child is better than giving a child milk that has evolved to perfectly suit the nutritional needs of a human child (and which science shows changes in composition as a child grows to meet his or her changing needs). We don't deal with other aspects of childrearing by pushing our children into a model based on what young cows or sheep or pigs do (although I seem to remember reading somewhere that that's what Claire Verity's methods are based on (that may be a hallucination brought on by too much cheese, but some guru or other's methods are, I'm pretty sure)). Having a kneejerk reaction against "natural" (especially when "natural" is shown to have significant health benefits for mother and child) isn't any more sensible than assuming "natural" = "good".

While I don't have a problem with your first post, I don't think it does explain why it's a topic of interest to discuss. What you seem to want to discuss is your own personal reaction, which you actually seem pretty secure and happy with -- so even with everybody being polite and reasonable and fluffy the responses pretty much have to come down to "Yes, Twiglett, I agree with you, it's weeeeeeeeeeeird and icky" or "I think you have some Ishoos to have that kind of reaction". So what are you hoping to achieve (genuine question)?

And mumblechum -- "nothing creepier than a two year old running to mummy and sticking its head up her Tshirt."? Nothing? Nothing in the world? Blimey...

I think Franny, Harpsi and Policy have covered it.

Whilst it could be interesting to debate, there isnt an awful lot to go on except for "I dont like it and I dont know why and I am going to get lots of people to stand up and say the same".

Cue lots of ignorant posts from people saying its sick/child abuse/whatever.

Franny hit the nail on the head when she said that folk who have b/fed past the statutory 6 months (extended b/feeders to laymen), will just feel vilified for their parenting choices for no other reason than you wanting to explore feelings that you dont appear to have thought through.

Perhaps, if you had asked an audience why you might feel like this, rather than just stating that you feel like this and you should be able to discuss it, it could have allowed those who know better to answer you.

All we have right now is "watching you b/feed your 4+ year old makes me feel sick" (yes, ultimately I am putting words in your mouth but that's how I am reading it).

also, can there be a manners thing with older ones? I ask out of interest, not judgement - at our BF group there is a 3 yo who comes up to her mother in the middle of her converstaion, rips up their blouse and latches on for 30 secs and then walks off and then does it again - do those of you that choose to extended feed have boundaries? In this case it is also a bit sad as her mother deeply wants another child but is not menstruating as she is still BF and she says she wants another baby but cannot stop bf

why do I find it distasteful?

that is intensely difficult to reply to but is also a totally fair question.

I think there is a marked difference between head and physical reaction in this particular case ... I can totally accept on an intellectual level that it really isn't an issue

but on a deeper level, and I suppose because I have never done it so it is not to me a natural progression, I feel that breastfeeding is for babies, for those who cannot take other sustenance. That a child who can ask for a breastfeed is in a different stage of life but being kept back. Perhaps I was brought up with an expectation that I should mature quickly (although this memory is from teenage years) and I feel that those who continue to breastfeed well into a child's life (beyond toddlerhood) infantilise their children.

My mother was disgusted at my continuing to breastfeed to the age I did.

There are many points when this 'that's wrong' reaction cuts in .. it is a continuum in our society with extreme points of view on other sides.

Just because a discussion covers difficult concepts does not IMHO make it invalid to hold. I apologise to those who feel hurt by my opening this discussion.

Scaremy - can you just clarify - are you saying that you think most of the extended b/feeders you have come across have extended b/fed because they are neurotic?

I wonder what happens if a child is school age and still being breastfed, how do they deal with other children's reactions