Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

You keep talking about support support support.
All I picture when I read what you say is pressure pressure pressure.

That sounds like a lot of projection to me. There is a big problem with projection. I had my DC in a large teaching hospital. There were dedicated breastfeeding supporters as well as the midwives. I saw a different person every three hours in my son's first 24 hours. They all tried to help me get him latched and he was just too sleepy and uninterested. He took some donor milk from a cup. Finally another bf supporter came on shift and showed me a totally different technique and we never looked back. EBF for 6 months and saved me a huge disappointment. But I was lucky she was there. All the funding for those supporters disappeared a few months later.

My SIL had her first in another busy hospital. She called for help with feeding and nobody came. She called again, load of time and there were no midwives free. She never managed to get my nephew to latch early enough and her supply never established.

Both of us were able to just pop our second DCs straight on the breast and go for it because we were more confident and had experience.

But support in hospitals in crucial early hours and days is at best hit and miss and at worst non-existent.

@Wolfgirrl ok so my postpartum sister with a newborn, who didn’t know wtf she was doing should have recruited a breastfeeding consultant and set up her own group in the days immediately following giving birth?! that’s a bit unrealistic don’t you think?

That sounds like a lot of projection to me. There is a big problem with projection

Aarrgh. I meant support, there is a big problem with support. Brain repeated the wrong word!

What theskywasdark says.
Totally agree.

@HarrietM87

But what else do you suggest? You cant actually say what more could realistically have been done, you're just criticising what is already in place.

Who cares? Rice/pasta, breastmilk/formula. It makes no difference.

What? Anyone with a gluten allergy will tell you rice and pasta are not the same, but I suppose that’s beside the point.
I think people should definitely choose what’s best for them. I combination fed, and just formula fed after DS was about 3 months old, but I’m under no illusions that they are ‘the same’. I think a baby can thrive on either, and that’s what’s important but still...
If your child has a sore eye or conjunctivitis you can drop some breastmilk in there to help. I wouldn’t be doing that with formula. Breastmilk can be left in the fridge for nearly a week, you definitely can’t leave formula in there for that long! So there is a difference. I think either is fine, but I would never argue that breastmilk is not superior - there is definitely something special about it, not massively so that anyone should feel guilt over not breastfeeding, but I don’t think we should convince ourselves that it’s the same either.

@Wolfgirrl I’m still not really sure what your point is- do you think women shouldn’t be helped to breastfeed?

The early days - like the first 1-2 weeks - are crucial. You need someone to sit with you and show you what to do. You need to know what’s normal and what’s cause for concern. You need to understand how the supply and demand system works. You need someone to check that the baby doesn’t have tongue tie or other physical issues. Some of this you can get online/from books but for some of it you need someone physically there. It would be great if there was dedicated bf support in the hospitals and as part of the checks/visits you get in the first few days. It would be great if there was a specialist midwife available because not all midwives are trained and they are very busy. I think some places in the UK do have this but definitely not all.

It should go without saying that anyone who wants to ff shouldn’t be put under pressure at all. But if you want to bf there should be resources to help you, if you want/need them.

Silly people here. I said 'I went through a couple of weeks a stress' because I was told i put myself through stress for negligible benefit I responded to that, not every person here.

My genuine question is why wouldnt you persevere with something that was best for your kid? Do I have to spell it out?OBVIOUSLY Barring obvious previous sexual abuse barring mental health issues that mean a mothers mental health declines so rapidly that it doesnt benefit anybody, OBVIOUSLY excluding those with medical conditions which mean they can't produce enough milk. Do I need to say all this obvious stuff? Oh yes I do, because its mumsnet. The land of the pretend I'm stupid for a one up .
We are talking about the average person with trying to breastfeed. Ffs

Mumsnet drives me crazy. For the ridiculous here:

I never said people only go a couple weeks of stress when getting breast feeding right
I never said everyone needs to be like me
I never said you must ruin your life for weeks on end to be successful at breastfeeding
I never said starve a baby to breastfeed.
I never said formula feeders are bad people because they didnt breastfeed.
I said with support and supplementing for a slow gainer majority of women can breastfeed or combination feed, fact.

Stop being purposely dumb and changing peoples words. I dont care how you all fed yours and sadly dont judge people for formula feeding because it's now considered the norm, it's not the biological norm and no amount of projected crap and pretending theres no benefit will make it better. Fed is not best, informed is best. Simple as.

"What? Anyone with a gluten allergy will tell you rice and pasta are not the same, but I suppose that’s beside the point."

...

Did I say rice and pasta are the same thing?

...

I'm sorry but please read what I actually wrote instead of jumping onto your gluteny high horse.

@liferips feel free to google, same as everyone else

Fed is best.

I'm pregnant and expecting in 3 weeks and while I fully plan on breastfeeding, as I know its the best food for the baby, its hard! So many people can't do it and its heartbreaking to see women feel like they've failed because of the breastfeeding nazis.

I've had to tell DH to call me out if I go nuts and think that I have to make BF work.

@TheSkyWasDark it depends what outcomes you’re looking at and how. I’m certainly not shaming anyone, plenty of women around me have formula fed from birth and I haven’t said a thing because it’s not my life and not my baby, but when we’re objectively looking at the facts breast milk is better than formula in many many ways. It just is. That doesn’t mean women should be forced to breast feed if they don’t want to, but we do them a disservice by acting like there’s no difference between the two choices.

@selfisolatingsince2007 the biggest reason women struggle is lack of knowledge/support/information, not anything physical. Fill yourself up on information and look for a breast feeding consultant. Midwives and HVs actually have very little breast feeding training

@BuffaloCauliflower thanks for the tip. I was planning on looking for a lactation consultant if I had issues. Honestly my biggest fear is the midwives trying to milk me in hospital. I hear it happens to most women even if they're feeding well! I have a temper most of the time and I'm worried I'm going to tell them to fudge off!

How can breastfeeding be that natural if it is so complicated you need several different advisors and weeks of practice to master it?!

The ideal is for women to have grown up seeing other women breastfeeding babies and maybe even supporting a friend or family member through the cluster feeding stage. The knowledge of how breastfeeding works would gradually be absorbed by the time she would come to do it herself. She'd also have people around her to support and demonstrate.

Advisors and support groups are the next best thing we can come up with in our more fragmented society.

@Wolfgirrl not everyone needs that, some do though. The amount of support each person needs will differ. It’s a skill that mother and baby need to learn. Lots of physical skills take time to perfect. Of course breastfeeding is natural! However that doesn’t mean anyone has to do it.

@selfisolatingsince2007 tell em to fudge off! Honestly this is why doing your own research helps, gives you knowledge to tell them to fudge off with. The Positive Birth Company have a great breastfeeding workshop up on their YouTube which is well worth a watch.

PS @Wolfgirrl giving birth is “natural” too but I’m sure you don’t recommend women just go it alone without medical support and intervention where needed.

How can breastfeeding be that natural if it is so complicated you need several different advisors and weeks of practice to master it

Lots of things are natural but need help in learning how to do it effectively. How many women do you think should freebirth because it's natural and therefore shouldn't need midwives, antenatal classes and other birth partners to do it?

@HarrietM87 @dappledthings

I dont think 'natural' exists. Evolution is not perfect, we are not 'built' to give birth or to breastfeed. That's why so many women died in childbirth and so many babies failed to thrive in years gone by.

Sometimes your body just won't do something correctly, whether that is get pregnant, give birth or breastfeed.

That is why we need caesarean sections, IVF, formula. All of these are excellent methods of achieving a pregnancy, birth and a thriving baby.

People like you that believe that everyone can breastfeed if they just go to enough groups, speak to enough specialists, keep trying keep trying keep trying, are advocating a culture whereby babies can be inadequately fed for weeks. They are human beings not plants, letting them go hungry or thirsty even for a matter of days is cruel.

Essentially the benefits of breastfeeding are not so great that it is worth all that heartache and stress.

@Wolfgirrl I agree some people can’t bf. Also some people don’t want to.

People like you that believe that everyone can breastfeed if they just go to enough groups, speak to enough specialists, keep trying keep trying keep trying

I honestly don’t know where you’ve got that from my posts - I’ve said the complete opposite several times?!

I don't agree with how breastfeeding can be almost forced and expected at all. I understand that it has to be encouraged and that's fine, but I believe a mum should always be allowed to make her own decisions without feeling judged for them. Fed is always best, I don't think how should be such a big deal.
I always knew I would not even try breastfeeding or expressing at all, it wasn't for me and I didn't want to. I've never regretted my decision at all. Ir was clear in my birth plan that I would not even try it. A student midwife at an appointment tried to put in my notes that I would try it, I threatened to report her if she lied in my notes (the qualified midwife didn't seem bothered and agreed with her). Thankfully in the birth centre I had a lovely midwife and student midwife both of whom accepted my decision. My son was in NICU for 12 days and the staff looked at me with disgust that I had chosen not to even try breastfeeding. But I stuck to it and ignored them all. The community midwives I saw were all supportive as well, and my health visitor was the absolute best and couldn't have been nicer about it. She said it's my decision no one else's.
It upsets me that some mums think they have to breastfeed no matter the cost. There's no need for them to feel that way

@Wolfgirrl as I said above, this kind of support isn’t needed in other societies where breastfeeding is much more open and visible. It certainly wouldn’t have been required for most of human history. It’s only now it’s become so hidden that normal feeding behaviours are not recognised and understood. In more tribal societies where women feed openly problems feeding are tiny. It’s a problem with our society

Feeding problems are tiny*

@harrietm87

Apologies if I misinterpreted it but your replies read like women should persevere, trying all forms of assistance under the sun, before giving up.

How long in your opinion should be a baby be inadequately fed for to give time to crack breastfeeding? A week? Two? A month?

Unless we send every woman home with a dedicated breastfeeding expert (which is unrealistic), the baby could be going without for days or weeks before anyone realises something is wrong, or the mother seeks help.

In my opinion if after one or two sessions with a midwife baby isnt feeding properly, it is time to ff or use a pump.