Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

"It certainly wouldn’t have been required for most of human history"

In most of human history, women breastfed each other's babies and, if they were rich, had wet nurses. Or the babies just died. That happened a lot too, but people seem to forget that part

Perhaps we should go back to that.

@BuffaloCauliflower so how do you explain women that have had several breastfeeding support classes and still haven't cracked it?

Couldn't agree more with the OP

The insta woman is obviously an idiot

@Wolfgirrl a few classes isn’t going to override a lifetime of not seeing it and interacting with it is it. There will be some small numbers for whom there really is an issue, but if it was a completely natural issue we’d see the same numbers of issues worldwide and we don’t. How would you explain it?

@Ilovelala

Even if it was ‘best’, people don’t automatically always do what is ‘best’

Living in the countryside is ‘best’ to prevent allergies. Feeding 5 portions of fruit and vegetables is ‘best’. Playing 30 minutes of sports a day is ‘best’. All sorts of things are ‘best’ and we don’t all do them all the time.

I don't come on here and say "what, you don't feed your child 3 portions of wholegrains a day? Why wouldn't you want what's best for your child?" so why do the booby brigade feel they can do what is, effectively, the same thing?

People like you that believe that everyone can breastfeed if they just go to enough groups, speak to enough specialists,

I've never said anything close to that. All I've said is that there is a shortage of support. I've not at all suggested that with support everyone can bf. That's entirely putting words into my mouth.

I really want to stress I completely support women making whatever choice is right for them, I would never judge. I’m coming at this entirely from a scientific research perspective

What I'll never understand is why women whose milk doesn't come in or who aren't producing enough aren't offered any sort of medical investigation. If any other part of the body wasn't working you'd be offered some sort of testing. I mean if your legs suddenly stopped working you wouldn't just be told "sometimes this happens" and sent off to buy a wheelchair.

@BuffaloCauliflower just because a country has a high rate of breastfeeding it doesnt mean that breastfeeding is working. A woman in the UK may stop breastfeeding because at appointments she can see her baby is losing weight and failing to thrive. In less developed countries they may not have access to these appointments, so they might not be aware their baby is not thriving. Some women in less developed countries may not have access to formula so have no choice in the matter anyway.

@buffalo but the science isn't there. bf and ff are the same longterm.

And really if you look at breastfeeding rates worldwide, even in countries where it's the norm, there are VERY few where it's over 70%. That would suggest to me that it's a struggle for many even where it is normalised if at least 30% in most every country are formula feeding or supplementing.

Sometimes your body just won't do something correctly, whether that is get pregnant, give birth or breastfeed.

I think this is generally true, but with breastfeeding I think we forget that actually often it’s more down to the baby than the mum. It probably sounds wrong to say it, but when I say I struggled to breastfeed that’s kind of incorrect - my DS was the one who couldn’t feed. I was doing everything I could, looking back I know I was doing it right! And he just didn’t know how to latch properly. A lot of babies don’t latch well or are slow to learn and it causes problems - that’s not the mum’s fault, or the fault of our bodies! Many children take their time with other ‘natural’ things too, like talking and walking - but we don’t immediately feel like we’ve failed personally because of that. It’s just that with breastfeeding their isn’t that flexibility when it comes to time - it’s hard for babies to catch up if they can’t do it from the start.

@Wolfgirrl you have misinterpreted it. If you go back and look at my posts, I think in every single one I’ve tried to make clear that support should be available for those who want and need it, but that it’s fine if you don’t want to bf, or if you can’t (obviously). Relevant support for women who want to bf but are struggling might include helping a woman to understand that bf isn’t working, or helping her combi feed, for example.

There’s a balance to be struck because bf does take a while to establish, and healthy babies are born with enough reserves for this to be ok. Milk doesn’t come in until days 3-5 after the birth, so normal healthy babies don’t “need” milk until provided they are getting colostrum. There are compulsory weigh ins at 5 days and then follow ups if the baby doesn’t get back to birth weight so unless the mother doesn’t bother showing up to these there is no way a baby could go “for weeks before anyone realises something is wrong”. There are also HV visits and weigh ins plus the 8 week check so in my experience anyway there is a lot of scrutiny on how well a newborn is doing. I don’t think you can generalise about a cut off because it depends how the baby is and how the mother is. Obviously I don’t advocate starving a baby or letting them go hungry/be distressed but equally if it’s something you want to do then you have to give it a proper chance of it working. It’s a really hard call when you’ve just given birth and don’t know what’s normal but that’s when you’d really benefit from someone knowledgeable giving you advice.

Your suggestion of one or two sessions with the midwife doesn’t work because by the time the milk comes in most women will have left hospital.

What’s your personal experience out of interest?

@TheSkyWasDark because childbirth and breastfeeding has become a competitive sport among women. Women who have the most intervention free birth and breastfeed really enjoy smugly sharing their stories, because they see it as a reflection upon their womanhood and gives them a sense of achievement in life.

Obviously nobody would choose to have interventions etc but some people are more pragmatic about the health of their baby, whereas others will dice with it for the bragging rights and their own 'experience'.

Like I said on a pp you see it all the time on here in various forms, this is just one of them.

@wolf I don't get why they are so proud though. Who honestly cares?

@TheSkyWasDark 70% is very different to 17% though isn’t it? And the outcomes that have been measured historically (which can’t be disentangled from class differences in outcomes) are not the ones I’m talking about, microbiome research is much more recent and the rise in non-communicable diseases in the last few decades is alarming. Breastfeeding and Caesarian section rates are certainly looking to be a contributing factor. That doesn’t mean I think we shouldn’t have formula or Caesarians for those who need them.

@HarrietM87

My experience is actually quite a unique one.

My DD was born at 36 weeks, small and sleepy. I tried latching her on for an hour or two, she wouldn't have it so we gave her some formula. Tried again the next day, she wouldn't do it. Gave her some more formula and asked for the hospital pump. Everyone was full of horror, 'But you can't pump before 6 weeks!' Etc. But I merrily filled bottles and bottles of milk (had a very high supply, got about 200ml out of each boob every 4 hours) and DD was fed expressed milk for 6 weeks. Health visitors kept nagging for me to go and see the bf counsellor, go to groups etc but I refused, I didnt want to go down the road of something eluding me, and let it ruin precious time with my baby. At 6 weeks old, she had put some some weight and was more alert. I decided to pop her on the boob with a view to formula feeding if she still couldn't do it. Luckily she fed straight away and I EBF for 5 months. I stopped because I wanted to, I didnt enjoy feeding in public and I wanted DP to be able to look after her if I wanted to go out for the evening etc.

I'm convinced that if I had gone down the road of breastfeeding groups, counsellors, etc I wouldve stressed myself out so much it wouldve had an adverse affect on my milk supply. I think it worked out in the end because I was always so relaxed about it.

@Wolfgirrrl I’m sure you’re right that being relaxed about it helped, and I’m glad you had an experience that you were happy with.

I think a lot of women get really stressed out and emotional about it. I commented on this thread in the first place because I don’t think we should judge any mother for her feeding choices at all. I don’t think the “breastfeeding nazi” stereotype helps anyone.

@harrietm87

My opinion is that women should be encouraged stay in hospital for a week after having the first baby (if they want to breastfeed). This gives time for the milk to come in, and have a few days practice with expert help before going home.

In my opinion going home after 6 hours, when your milk hasn't even come in yet, struggling with it at home before waiting 3 days for the weekly breastfeeding support group is madness. Having hotlines, counsellors appointments etc is too pressurey and encourages the woman to drag the problem on for longer than it should. They feel, through guilt, that they should 'try everything' before giving up, and trying everything can take a few weeks at least. This is long enough for baby to become dehydrated and the mother severely stressed.

If after the week in hospital they havent mastered it, they should be shown how to safely make up bottles (another complaint I see is women wanting to ff not being shown how to make bottles up). If they are really intent on carrying on trying they should be able to opt to stay an extra week.

Just my opinion, I'm sure someone will point out all the flaws I didnt think of lol.

Just to add, it is the natural-birth-and-breastfeeding brigade that encourages home births and MLU births where you are encouraged to go home as soon as you can, so they're shooting themselves in the foot really.

@BuffaloCauliflower Wholegrain has a huge impact on the gut so I hope you are out their nagging women about feeding that too.

Sadly, we all know that isn't the case.

And sad that you package your judgement as "alarm".

And it has nothing to do with "need". I didn't "need" to formula feed, I wanted to.

And that is no one else's business but my own.

@theskywasdark there are so many things you can do to raise healthy, happy children. FWIW I was breastfed for a year and have no relationship with my mum as she was an abusive narcissist. Dont let anyone tell you how you feed your child correlates to how much you care about them xx

@TheSkyWasDark I’m not nagging anyone though? I’m having a conversation. Only judgement seems to be coming from you towards those of use offering a different opinion to you. You seem intent on making my words into an attack that they just aren’t.

And yes our western diets are a mess, it is something I’d discuss, but just as I’m not judging or shaming anyone for formula feeding, I’m not judging or shaming anyone for their diets either

My opinion is that women should be encouraged stay in hospital for a week after having the first baby (if they want to breastfeed). This gives time for the milk to come in, and have a few days practice with expert help before going home.

I agree with this. I was in hospital a week both times with dc and certainly with my first that is the reason I was able to breastfeed. And the use of a hospital grade pump was a game changer. Many people do need round the clock support to breastfeed a tricky baby, and in the middle of the night is when you feel most stressed about it. Unfortunately that probably won’t happen unless baby or mum are ill. It makes a massive difference whether a partner is supportive too.

I think the breast is best message has been used to become a witch hunt for any women who exercises her free will to choose how she'd like to feed. This coupled with the new phase of saying fed is bare minimum really should explain why new mothers will run themselves and their new babies into the ground to avoid being seen as a second class mother.

There is nothing wrong with the phrase fed is best but some women take it upon themselves to only promote breastfeeding in any circumstance.

Myself, I knew I didn't want to breastfeed. Had a persistent midwife, was recommended to go to talking therapy to get to the deeper reasons as to why I didn't want to do it and then have been shamed countless times by family members and health professionals.

Breast milk does not guarantee anything, it doesn't guarantee that your baby will thrive in life, it doesn't guarantee they won't get and illnesses, it doesn't guarantee that they will grow to 6" and be a hit with the opposite or same sex. It simply means that you, as a mother, have chosen to do it.

Breast is best is a phrase that has been responsible for many sleepless nights, PND episodes and in some cases suicides.

Feeding is a personal choice and women should be allowed to feed as they wish with no outside opinions