Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

The midwives in hospital will happily help you, you can refer yourself to a breastfeeding specialist, facebook is jam-packed with details of local breastfeeding groups, YouTube tutorials, online information, La Leche League, etc etc.

The midwives in hospital didn’t happily help me, they were massively overstretched. I then went to stay at a midwife led birthing centre for breast feeding support, they still couldn’t help me get my DS to latch. My DS had a tongue tie which didn’t get clipped until he was 10 days old - then he finally latched. All the other stuff you suggested would be fuck all help in the mean time... as if a new mum who has just given birth and is struggling to breastfeed should feel comfortable (physically and mentally) to go to a breastfeeding support group with a bunch of strangers. And though none of the midwives could help, just check out youtube. Seriously??
Support needs to be instant. All that stuff you suggested too little too late. There is not enough support for new mums at all - midwives need better training, and time - they did their best, but looking back they clearly didn’t know how to help properly, and most didn’t have the time.
And ‘refer yourself to a breastfeeding specialist’, yeah right of course you can

@Wolfgirrl yes exactly, it’s stretched. The fact that other things are stretched too may explain it but it doesn’t make it adequate . It’s great that you personally think it’s all ok but studies have shown that it isn’t, and that it’s one of the major reasons for low bf rates in this country.

My sister was in hospital for less than 24 hours. Of course she asked for help (I note how you’re persisting in trying to make it her fault). The midwives she spoke to said feeding looked fine and she was just getting used to it despite the fact she was in a lot of pain, and discharged her. The midwife who came to the house next day said the same. That was her only contact with midwives and you don’t establish bf in 2 days. Her milk hadn’t even come in by then.

@liferips Again, there is no scorn being tipped on bf mothers, but on the ones who are pushy about it and who bang on about how great it is and they are for doing it.

All of us are feeding our babies. That should be the only thing that matters.

@BuffaloCauliflower agree with you completely.

British culture does not support breastfeeding. "They" can say "breast is best" but our culture says different.

Not enough support, not enough visibility or examples.

Then threads like this showing what a lot of mums actually think of those that breastfeed and actually telling themselves that there is no difference between ff and bf

I have three children and ff with my first two after several weeks because they just couldn't do it - it did upset me because I know there's a huge difference between ff and bf and the benefits of bf. Had very little help from MW and HV. HV wasn't bothered about me giving formula at all and offered no help with bf.

I am however really pleased that I've been able to bf my third.

@TheSkyWasDark so is it the ones who starve their babies that you disapprove of or the ones who are “pushy” about bf? It seems like you have a mega chip on your shoulder. Why does it bother you if people talk about how they love bf and how proud they are of doing it? It’s not a comment on your choices.

You should absolutely be able to say you hate bfing.

Just as it’s fine to challenge that someone EBFing ruined their bones and teeth. That sounds like the mother had an eating disorder and was in a very poor physical state. Or had undetected thyroid issues and lost a lot of weight.

@TheSkyWasDark agree there should be no guilt or shame pushed on mothers who have to formula feed. Before formula was invented I'm sure my first two babies wouldn't have survived.

But I do think there's something badly wrong in our societies attitude towards formula - a lot of mothers seem to opt for it so quickly -and the lack of support/help with breastfeeding is awful here.

It’s great that you personally think it’s all ok but studies have shown that it isn’t, and that it’s one of the major reasons for low bf rates in this country.

Just had a look online and the country with the highest bf rate is Rwanda. I suspect they don't have all of the resources listed above available to every woman.

What would you suggest instead of the system we have?

I only had a 5 hour labour and felt fairly fit and well after DS was born. He wouldn’t latch until day 10 when his tongue tie was clipped. In the mean time I was still trying to get him to latch with every feed, preparing formula, bottle feeding him (which he could only just about do) and expressing breastmilk - repeat 10 times a day for 10 days. I just about had the energy for all that - I wouldn’t blame anyone for not going to that effort. It was relentless. I certainly wouldn’t blame anyone who had a longer labour/more traumatic labour or another child at home to look after for throwing the towel had they been in that situation. My son’s tongue tie should have been sorted much earlier, I don’t know why they don’t check at birth? It was only because a friend suggested it that I mentioned to the midwife. People saying there’s all this help out there - but most new parents are understandably clueless. How can you ask for things you don’t know you can ask for? Help should be forthcoming - you shouldn’t have to dig for it. Especially when before birth you’re told from all directions that you should preferably breastfeed and why it’s important. It’s easy to give out that information before the baby is born, but where’s the follow up?

@Wolfgirrl I’m not really sure what your point is here. Do you think there should be less support? Do you think that the women who say they didn’t have enough are wrong?

The UK can’t be compared to Rwanda - it’s a totally different culture and society. I’d imagine that women in Rwanda grow up seeing women bf everywhere every day and have access to lots of support from family and friends, and it’s harder to get formula and prepare it safely. That’s not the case here where families are spread out and bf is not not normalised, while formula is easy to access. The appropriate comparison is other western countries - Europe and the US - and as I’ve said they have better support and higher BF rates, even in the US where women have much shorter maternity leaves.

I would like to see similar support systems available here for women as there are in say Sweden for example. And it would be nice if people would mind their own business about other’s feeding choices. Someone breastfeeding their child doesn’t invalidate your choice to ff yours.

@HarrietM87 as I said, no interest in anything you have to say so don't @ me

@liferips women opt for it because they want to. Women are people with free will, they can do what they like. Breastfeeding doesn't need to be promoted when ff and bf provide the same nutrients. It's like saying "isn't it such a shame women give their children rice when there's all this lovely pasta lying around?"

Who cares? Rice/pasta, breastmilk/formula. It makes no difference.

"actually telling themselves that there is no difference between ff and bf"

Because all the evidence says so. Look it up. Early studies did not take income into account and were skewed towards bf.

@TheSkyWasDark all I’ve said on this thread is that people shouldn’t judge others’ choices, and everyone should be able to make the feeding choices they want. I’m not sure why that offends you so much.

Telling someone they have a chip on their shoulder over something that caused huge mental distress at the time will tend to poison them against you. It is a cunty thing to say to someone.

Besides which, you just make strawmen arguments and I can't be bothered with those.

HTH

Harriet
You are so intense.
You keep talking about support support support.
All I picture when I read what you say is pressure pressure pressure.

@harrietm87

What support does Sweden offer that we don't?

Harriet*
all I’ve said on this thread is that people shouldn’t judge others’ choices, and everyone should be able to make the feeding choices they want. I’m not sure why that offends you so much.

You say you're not judging but your writing style suggests otherwise.

If you tried your best and you couldnt do it then when did I say you should feel like shit? A couple weeks of stress does not change anything about the newborn period or bond or anything else, that's just some projected crap. Its stressful regardless. Breastfeeding is better for a baby and if I could make it work then I would and did. It's simple. Never once said a baby should be deprived so that a mother could breast feed, I said that if she had support she could thrive. If she was one of the small percentage of women who medically cannot breastfeed then she of course should change to formula immediately. If she needs to top up with formula to keep her baby healthy she should, though the preference should be to top up with breast milk. Typical mumsnet hear what you want to hear.

The UK can’t be compared to Rwanda - it’s a totally different culture and society. I’d imagine that women in Rwanda grow up seeing women bf everywhere every day and have access to lots of support from family and friends, and it’s harder to get formula and prepare it safely.

I agree. Obviously it’s likely to work eventually if you have no choice. Perhaps if I’d let him get hungry enough my DS would have eventually latched despite his tongue tie - but was I really supposed to let him get that distressed and risk dehydration rather than top him up with some formula? I’m sure any mum would continue to breastfeed despite pain and discomfort if her baby had nothing else to eat - but again why should that be expected when it isn’t necessary and safe formula is available. (And lets not forget that when formula really isn’t available, babies who didn’t manage to feed at the breast likely die or become very ill from unsuitable alternatives - they were still ‘breastfed’ rather than ‘formula fed’. That doesn’t make the high breastfeeding rate a success - those are not the conditions under which we want to improve our breastfeeding rates.) As you say there is no comparison here.

@whatdoyoudonow I mentioned lack of support in passing and a pp said they thought there was lots of it in this country, I was just responding to that.

I think if someone wants to bf they should be able to, and if they need help they should be able to get it. If they don’t want to, that’s totally fine! I haven’t said anything that suggests otherwise. If you’re interpreting the fact that my sister would have loved to have had a local bf group as me saying she was under pressure...I’m just not sure why!

@Ilovelala

If she needs to top up with formula to keep her baby healthy she should

Didnt you call formula 'crap' in a post above? Or have I mixed you up with someone else?

"Breastfeeding is better for a baby"

No, it is not.

And even if it was (which it is not), do you think a stressed, exhausted mum is better for a baby? One of my friends admitted to hitting her baby because he couldn't latch, is that better than just giving formula? Really?

If you're happy to do it and it's easy, crack on. but don't go on about it to those who don't want to or for whom it isn't.

How the fuck it ever gets beyond that, I really don't know.

@HarrietM87

Why didnt she set up a group if her area didnt have one?

Or if she lives rurally, why should all the other women travel to her?

@TheSkyWasDark you seem so angry in all your posts. It does sound like you had huge mental distress over this. And it seems like you still aren’t over it. I’m sorry you had a horrible MIL and I’m sorry you had a tough time. I think it’s hard when you’ve been through something shitty not to project your feelings on to others. When I was going through recurrent miscarriage for example, I felt like people who talked about how they fell pregnant accidentally were rubbing it in my face, but they weren’t. I wonder if that’s how people saying they love bf comes across to you. There is so much angst around baby feeding it’s not worth it.

@TheSkyWasDark

Where are you getting your information from that formula has the same benefits as breast milk?!

I cannot find this.