Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

I think it's fair to say a lot of people simply don't know the difference between a starving newborn and a normal fussy BF newborn. I thought mine was endlessly feeding but in hindsight I think she had colic and being on the breast comforted her.

Rather than breast is best I think a myth busting campaign that was also aimed at the extended family would be better.

@TheSkyWasDark quite. Even though I know I’m doing it I can’t stop myself. It’s so ingrained and it’s so damaging. And everyone on this thread feels they have to justify it or be faux humble or stealth smug about how they are doing it.

I don’t know how to make it better but maternal mental health would be so much better if we can lose this division.

I had a great deal of difficulty breastfeeding DD1. The labour and birth were amazing but the feeding was a disaster. My strongest memory was feeding her and watching my other breast drip blood onto her sleep suit in an ever widening circle.

We lasted 10 days before being admitted back to the midwife unit. From there it was an ambulance to hospital where I was diagnosed with uterine and bladder infections, infective mastitis in one breast and sepsis. I then learned I was allergic to Flucloxicillan and had to be resuscitated.

It was a traumatic experience.

I failed to ebf my baby for six months as I had planned.

What I learned from the experience was that it was due to where and when I was born. If I had been born in Sweden, I would have been supported by a culture of breastfeeding in 2012. Scotland, 150 years ago, a working class breastfeeding culture.

It was no wonder I couldn't do it. I didn't have any cultural background to help. Both DH and I were FF so our own parents couldn't help.

I prepared to bf DD2 very differently. I found the LLL locally and online. I made contact with the Infant Feeding Specialist I had seen in the hospital with DD1. I watched hours of breastfeeding videos and went to all the local bf support groups every week. I had antenatal 1-2-1 contact with a breastfeeding counsellor and an IBCLC. I made a team around me to replace the culture I didn't have the first time. A community, I guess. I knew I could not rely on the NHS for breastfeeding support. I needed peer support and expert help.

DD2 was EBF for 6 months but not without difficulty. I never felt alone though.

@Mercedes519 Sometimes I just want to be able to say "I stopped breastfeeding because I fucking hated it" because beyond the pain and the exhaustion, that was really the main reason. I did not like anything about it. It didn't make me feel bonded or any of that, it made me feel like an animal.

But you probably get thrown in mn jail for saying that.

"I genuinely believe this is why PND is on the rise because we have so many opinions thrown at us all the effing time"

This is so true. My MIL asked every single fucking day if my milk had come in yet and then went "oh that's so sad" when my husband told her I wasn't breastfeeding anymore.

We get on fine but I will never ever forgive her for how shit she made me feel.

I’ve read this whole thread waiting for someone to make the comment @stargirl1701 has made.

Our breastfeeding issues in the UK are largely social. We’ve had half a century of formula being pushed for a start, any breastfeeding being hidden from view, we don’t see our mums, aunties, sisters, cousins feeding in the way we would have in times gone by. In cultures where breastfeeding is widely seen and openly discussed, breastfeeding failure rates are tiny. Things like baby fussing at breast to up supply are known to be normal and will have been seen many times by women before they feed their own. Here we have no experience of this and think something is wrong. We think breastfeeding should just come naturally but we’re given an unnatural view of feeding. Proper support and realistic education would make a HUGE difference.

Some up thread also mentioned the microbiome and the research for this is strong. Breast milk includes a sugar that’s only purpose is to feed the babies gut microbes and we know a diverse microbe is a big indicator of wider health, let alone the passing on of the mother’s antibodies. Caesarean births do also have negative effects on the microbiome but breastfeeding can override this. Babies born by Caesarian and then formula fed are most at risk of microbiome issues leading to greater chance of things like allergies and other non-communicable diseases. These have risen massively as breastfeeding has dropped.

Of course it’s fantastic that we have adequate formula now and no baby should starve because of breastfeeding issues, it’s amazing we have this resource for when it’s needed, but it’s a problem that women aren’t better supported and educated about breastfeeding to reduce our shockingly low failure rate.

Shockingly high failure rate* obviously

Class definitely plays into it. I know a highly educated (science) mother who is in a very hippy left wing attachment parenting crowd. She was so obsessed with EBF that she irreparably damaged her teeth and bones (she had various issues that made eating properly difficult for her). She later became a very vocal fed is best advocate but not until she had been terribly damaged. Her antenatal care people did nothing but encourage her.

My baby (over 6 months, under 1yr) is breastfed.
It always makes me cringe when family ask ‘are you still feeding her’ - no, she survives on air
And then say ‘aren’t you good’

Breastfeeding shouldn’t be a virtue.

@Reginabambina this is the kind of stereotyping anecdote (“hippy left wing attachment parenting crowd”) that’s really unhelpful. How do you irreparably damage your teeth and bones from bf for goodness sake? It sounds like she actually damaged them from not eating properly - that’s different. It’s also her choice. And how is it relevant that she was highly educated? And what’s the link between education and class?

"Shockingly high failure rate"

Why is it a failure?

It is a choice.

Allergies haven't risen because of formula feeding. Correlation does not equal causation. If I eat a slice of toast then crash my car, it doesn't mean that toast eating causes car crashes. Allergies are on the rise everywhere, no matter the breastfeeding rates.

And as for formula being pushed, what a laugh. It's not even allowed to be advertised and the breast is best shite is shoved down everyone's throats the minute they get pregnant.

Long term benefits for bf and ff are the same.

We have a choice and that is great. And it should be a choice made without guilt tripping.

@HarrietM87 while I was pregnant I read research that showed a link between the mothers education and breastfeeding rates so it definitely does okay a part.

@TheSkyWasDark the link between reduction of microbial diversity and a rise in non-communicable diseases is far more compelling than simply ‘correlation’.

It's not a choice if you wanted to BF but didn't get proper support

Breastfeeding isn’t the only thing to contribute to that loss of course, but it’s certainly one large factor

@amazedmummy I wasn’t questioning that, I was questioning how it linked to what the pp had said - education level isn’t the same thing as class and it’s not the same thing as being hippy and left wing either!

'We have a choice and that is great. And it should be a choice made without guilt tripping.'

Yes this ^

@HarrietM87 true, my apologies. First to go to university here. Very much working class. Formula fed baby.

There’s guilt tripping both ways, that’s the problem. And it’s a shame women can’t support each other instead of being so judgmental. There is so little support for bf in this country and you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

If you don’t try or stop bf some people will judge you for ff. And if you do try, and keep going despite the difficulties and lack of support, you get some people judging you for that and saying you’re starving your baby and you’re “obsessive” etc.

Why does anyone feel the need to comment on anyone else’s feeding choices at all?

There isn't a lack of support here though.

The midwives in hospital will happily help you, you can refer yourself to a breastfeeding specialist, facebook is jam-packed with details of local breastfeeding groups, YouTube tutorials, online information, La Leche League, etc etc.

Whether or not you ask for help or find the resources useful is another matter entirely.

@Wolfgirrl I’m sorry but that’s not right. Available support varies massively depending on where you are in the country. Lots of the resources have been cut due to austerity policies. Midwives’ ability and time to help also varies and they are incredibly stretched.

I live in London and it was easy for me to access bf support (although the midwives in hospital were useless and gave me some incorrect advice). By contrast, my sister lives in Yorkshire and there are no bf support groups within a 25 mile radius of her house. She didn’t get any help from the midwives in hospital. She can’t afford a private lactation consultant. She phoned the bf helplines but that’s no substitute for someone physically showing you how to hold the baby/get them to latch etc.

The lack of bf support in this country, particularly when compared with other western countries, is very well documented. See here for example: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/breastfeeding-rates-britain-lowest-world-channel-4-dispatches-kate-quilton-a8468416.html%3famp

But you can blame women (who are at their most vulnerable having just given birth) for not being proactive enough if you like.

@harrietm87 every service in this country is stretched. Considering breastfeeding isnt essential I think the range of support out there is pretty good. It isnt possible to cater to every single individual and provide the exact service they want.

Why did she not get any help from the midwives in hospital? I find it hard to believe that if she asked, they all were totally disinterested.

I wanted to reduce my chances 9f getting breast cancer. I did it for about 7 months for both children.

My two grandmothers died of breast cancer in their early 50s

Most mums formula feed by 6 weeks.

I see the opposite OP - women opt for formula at the drop of a hat and there are many examples, on this thread too, of scorn being directed at breastfeeding mothers.

"the link between reduction of microbial diversity and a rise in non-communicable diseases is far more compelling than simply ‘correlation’."

The long term outcomes for bf and ff are fractionally different. I mean miniscule.

Owning a dog reduces allergies in children to, do you bang on to mums about how they should own a dog as well since you're so concerned about allergies? Eating peanut butter early reduces the incidence of peanut allergies. Do you insist on mothers lobbing peanut butter into tiny mouths asap? or is it only the mighty breast that you feel you have to promote?

Take your mum shaming and shove it. Seriously.